degrading DSL and no FTTN guarantees

[richardh]

I have been a Sonic Fusion customer for years. I've told lots of people about Sonic and how much I've liked real tech support.
I'm pretty far from the CO but had stable DSL at 3Mbps for years. Since last year, my stable speed decreased to 1.5-1.7Mbps and recently to 1Mbps or a little less. I've worked with Sonic tech support to troubleshoot, and eventually had AT&T install a new NID and I installed new inside wiring to create a straight Cat5e run of 20 feet to the modem from the NID. Two AT&T visits have said the line is OK (for voice) and that's the end of support for the copper. Sonic can't seem to do anything about the obvious degradation in the line.
Sonic recommended switching to FTTN. I checked availability online and found FTTN X2 was available at $76/month. Weird, since I don't need 50Mbps (3Mpbs was OK for me) and if 50Mbps is available, the 20 Mbps FTTN should be. So I pursued it in some emails. According to Sonic tech support, it is. You just have to place an order for it with the sales group during normal business hours, no online signup. So a service that costs $20/month less is available, but Sonic doesn't tell you that unless you are savvy enough to ask. Not so cool.
Concerned that AT&T may not support Sonic FTTN any better than the Sonic Fusion DSL that comes on their copper, I asked specific questions of Sonic tech support. Here are their answers verbatim:

1. Since it is copper to the home from the VRAD it is susceptible to the degradation through wear and tear as well as current weather conditions like standard copper lines from the CO. We do not possess any information concerning AT&T's QoS terms. The quality of VOIP is only as good as the Internet connection it is run on.

2. We do not provide a battery backup solution for the VOIP service.

According to this, the FTTN connection might not work any better than my failing DSL copper connection, they don't have any idea about the quality of service terms for the internet and voice they are reselling from AT&T, VOIP might not work if the internet connection is degraded over the last few hundred feet of copper, and customers are left to fend for themselves to have some kind of backup if the power goes down and they need to use their phone.

I guesss I can try FTTN and see if it works within the 30 days and if it isn't' stable at a reasonable speed with acceptable VOIP, cancel before locking in the 12 month term.

I am very concerned about the direction that Sonic is headed these days. I'd like to hear from Dane if this is I what should expect for Sonic.

[dane]

I'd encourage you to make the migration, the feedback from customers about Fusion FTTN has been really good. I wish we could do more with the legacy DSL, but it's pretty clearly reached the end of its life.

[mykmelez]

1. Since it is copper to the home from the VRAD it is susceptible to the degradation through wear and tear as well as current weather conditions like standard copper lines from the CO.

This is true, but the length of the copper wire is much shorter with FTTN, which theoretically means less overall chance of degradation.

We do not possess any information concerning AT&T's QoS terms.

Indeed, this is unfortunate, although I'm not sure exactly what you mean by QoS in this case.

If you mean the feature of routers that enables them to prioritize certain kinds of internet traffic (like VOIP), Sonic's analog telephone adapter (ATA) may not benefit from the QoS feature of the AT&T-provided router, as dherr notes in viewtopic.php?t=2846&p=18933.

If you mean more generally the reliability of the connection, then this isn't much different from the case with classic DSL, except that classic DSL uses more Sonic infrastructure but also more of AT&T's crumbling copper-to-CO/RT network. Whereas FTTN uses very little Sonic infrastructure but uses AT&T's better-supported copper-to-VRAD network. So it's a mixed bag.

The quality of VOIP is only as good as the Internet connection it is run on.

That's true for every provider of internet access and VOIP. It isn't unique to Sonic FTTN. It's a disadvantage of VOIP as compared to POTS service, of course. But Sonic apparently doesn't have the option to offer POTS with FTTN. (And AT&T charges an obscene amount for POTS by itself.)

2. We do not provide a battery backup solution for the VOIP service.

I'm unsure how I feel about this one. Sonic could provide a battery backup and roll it into the price of the service, as they do with the ATA, which would make the service offering simpler and more comprehensive. But some people already have their own battery backups, and others would prefer to source their own (or go without). So it seems reasonable to let customers handle this themselves.

I am very concerned about the direction that Sonic is headed these days. I'd like to hear from Dane if this is I what should expect for Sonic.

The way I look at it is this: AT&T is busy abandoning the copper-to-the-CO/RT network on which Sonic's classic DSL offering is based, which makes it hard for Sonic to maintain that service. Meanwhile, Sonic is busy building out its own fiber-to-the-home network to replace that copper network. But the buildout isn't happening fast enough.

So Sonic is between a rock and a hard place: If it does nothing, it will lose users like you who are no longer satisfied with their crumbling DSL connections and can't get fiber yet. But it doesn't have a great replacement.

Thus resold AT&T FTTN, a stopgap solution that provides faster speeds but with less control over the service and its quality, so Sonic can improve the service for classic DSL customers (with some trade-offs) until it has something really better to offer them.

FWIW, my fianceé (then girlfriend) got FTTN last year to replace her ~1.3Mbps classic DSL connection, and the service has been great. Not flawless, but then neither is my own VDSL2 service from Sonic. I described her installation and its outcome in viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2796&start=60#p19197.

I did get her a battery backup (the APC BE550G), which has enabled her connection (and VOIP line) to continue to work through a couple power outages. My experience with her VOIP line is that it's a bit tinny, like low-bit-rate MP3s. But her overall connection has been solid.

[mikeditty]

For Sonic VOIP, I use this for hours of conference calls in the evening and it works great. Quality is better than my cellphone and I haven't had any issues. I do have a pretty good phone hooked up for this so that certainly impacts the quality.

[pockyken007]

I have been a Sonic Fusion customer for years. I've told lots of people about Sonic and how much I've liked real tech support.
I'm pretty far from the CO but had stable DSL at 3Mbps for years. Since last year, my stable speed decreased to 1.5-1.7Mbps and recently to 1Mbps or a little less. I've worked with Sonic tech support to troubleshoot, and eventually had AT&T install a new NID and I installed new inside wiring to create a straight Cat5e run of 20 feet to the modem from the NID. Two AT&T visits have said the line is OK (for voice) and that's the end of support for the copper. Sonic can't seem to do anything about the obvious degradation in the line.
Sonic recommended switching to FTTN. I checked availability online and found FTTN X2 was available at $76/month. Weird, since I don't need 50Mbps (3Mpbs was OK for me) and if 50Mbps is available, the 20 Mbps FTTN should be. So I pursued it in some emails. According to Sonic tech support, it is. You just have to place an order for it with the sales group during normal business hours, no online signup. So a service that costs $20/month less is available, but Sonic doesn't tell you that unless you are savvy enough to ask. Not so cool.
Concerned that AT&T may not support Sonic FTTN any better than the Sonic Fusion DSL that comes on their copper, I asked specific questions of Sonic tech support. Here are their answers verbatim:

1. Since it is copper to the home from the VRAD it is susceptible to the degradation through wear and tear as well as current weather conditions like standard copper lines from the CO. We do not possess any information concerning AT&T's QoS terms. The quality of VOIP is only as good as the Internet connection it is run on.

2. We do not provide a battery backup solution for the VOIP service.

According to this, the FTTN connection might not work any better than my failing DSL copper connection, they don't have any idea about the quality of service terms for the internet and voice they are reselling from AT&T, VOIP might not work if the internet connection is degraded over the last few hundred feet of copper, and customers are left to fend for themselves to have some kind of backup if the power goes down and they need to use their phone.

I guesss I can try FTTN and see if it works within the 30 days and if it isn't' stable at a reasonable speed with acceptable VOIP, cancel before locking in the 12 month term.

I am very concerned about the direction that Sonic is headed these days. I'd like to hear from Dane if this is I what should expect for Sonic.

Copper degrades over the years of being used / weather conditions and just natural degradation so what used to be a 3 mbps connection at some point will go down ( you are at that point ) this has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with SONIC and everything to do with ATT and your local gov. not putting enough pressure on local telcos to maintain their network or to upgrade their network to newer technologies .

The rest of your " rant " is pointless as it boils down to the same point - network / copper deterioration which is out of Sonic control .