Switching from DSL to Fusion FTTN questions

[ryanlopez]

Hello. I've been a Sonic customer for some years now with just a standard DSL plan. I've recently received an email telling me that DSL rates are going up, DSL is dying, and that I should consider switching to a Fusion plan. I suppose I saw it coming, and had been thinking of making the switch, but I guess that was the push I needed. I've checked the main website for my address and apparently the only thing I can get is Fusion FTTN. As I understand it, this is basically repackaged AT&T U-Verse, though I really don't even understand what type of service it is at all.

So I have several questions hopefully someone can help me out with:

1. I've read that an AT&T worker will have to come into the house to install something (The Modem/Router, I guess it was). What exactly does that entail? Where do they need to install it? Is it the same as DSL where the modem needs to be connected to a phone line or something, or is there some other kind of work they would need to do? We have a standard AT&T landline phone as well right now that we would be getting rid of if getting Fusion FTTN.

2. I've also read that I would not be able to use my own Modem/Router as I am doing right now because AT&T requires the use of their modems for security reasons or something like that. Is that correct? I noticed there is also a $6.50 fee for ATA rental, but is that also required? ATAs don't seem to be very expensive and I would love to be able to just purchase a compatible one of my own if possible.

3. Assuming I cannot use my own modem/router, what kind of options does the rental one provide. Right now, for my needs, I require the ability to forward ports, put certain IP addresses in DMZ mode, and adjust the QoS priorities for certain MAC addresses. Can it do all of those efficiently? I'm also assuming I can rename the network and change the security settings as I wish. Or, can I put the rental modem/router in a certain mode that enables it to just pass data through to my own router without limitations?

4. I've heard plenty of security and privacy concerns with the Fusion FTTN service as all your data pretty much goes through AT&T. As I understand it, Sonic provides some sort of VPN service for free. Is that correct, and is it reliable? One of the reasons I switched to Sonic in the first place was to avoid companies like AT&T logging everything everyone is your house is doing. I don't mind if it's something I need to setup for each device separately, but would it be compatible with most devices, like Android tablets for instance? Any and all details on the provided VPN would be appreciated.

5. Can I port over my current AT&T phone number for use with the new VOIP phone? And how reliable is the VOIP phone? I've heard horror stories in the past of dropped calls and missed calls abound because of lost packets and such. I've also read that if the power goes out or the internet goes out, you lose your phone service, obviously. That's okay, most important phone calls we make are with our cell phones anyways.

6. To anyone who does use Fusion FTTN, how reliable is it in general? My Sonic DSL almost never dies on me, and when it does, it's usually no more than for an hour or two. Should I be expecting those times where the internet dies for 24+ hours? I live in Redwood City, CA, so if anyone with Fusion FTTN in that area can chime in, that'd be really appreciated.

7. I'm assuming and hoping the answer is "no", but does this service have any data caps or any limitation of any kind that I would not be used to because of my current DSL plan?



I believe that's it for questions. Some of these are my own and some are from family members, so hopefully I covered everything. I personally want to stick with Sonic, but I do want to get these concerns out of the way first.

A lot of questions I know, sorry. Super big "Thank You" to anyone who can give me an answer for any of these (hopefully all of these).

[pockyken007]

1) the technician will come ina nd c heck the quality of your cables at the MPOE and existing jack . Then he will install little grey device ( either behind the plate if there is enough space or next to it if there isn't that's where your RJ45 jacks will plug in ) . After that he will run a test at the MPOE again then one more test at the jack and then he will proceed to hook up the ATT provided modem / router . You will then have to wait as he confirms with somebody at ATT the installation and then wait for sync . After that he will check the speeds / sync rates and all that and be on his merry way .

2) If am not mistaken you would be able to use your own modem / router behind the ATT modem / router but I am not 100% sure as I didn't have to try it yet

3) Not sure

4) As far as I know there is a vpn solution being tested aside from that I don;t use it and so far no problems with some crazy traffic or crazy packets

5) I was able to port my number no problem and had no problems with calls at all ( including international ) I did put all my equipment on a back up battery in case we ever lose power . Also I am yet to experience any kind of internet outage ...

6) I have been using it happily for 3+ months now and not even one outage ,,,

7) as far as I know no data caps ( i have downloaded huge files with it for my school projects and whatnot and never did I hit any data caps or slow downs )

[ryanlopez]

Thanks pockyken007 for your response. Glad to hear that you haven't had outages with this service.

I think I know what my MPOE is and where it is, but I'm still a little confused. They install something right next to it? Mine is outside my house I believe. Do they install something (the modem, I guess) inside the house? Specifically, can that go anywhere or does that hook up to my existing phone line like my DSL currently does?

Thanks for your answers so far. Hopefully someone else can chime in on the other questions.

[dct]

1) The AT&T technician will do what is required to ensure the outside signal is continuous to the modem. The work required can vary depending on your internal wiring and setup. Most of the time they will investigate the wiring situation, address any issues that might be present, install & configure your modem, and then you should be all set.

2) The modem and ATA at this point in time are mandatory.

3) The gateway provided should be able to be put in DMZPlus Mode and allow Port Forwarding. Unfortunately, I do not believe that QoS options will be configurable from your end. You can plug the provided gateway into another router that has these options, however, and as long as the secondary router is DMZ'd or Port Forwarded, you should be able to configure your QoS settings from that device. I know this isn't preferable, but I just want to be sure you are aware of all of your options.

4) Yes, the VPN service is free, and it should be reliable. It is maintained by our engineers; it's awesome. At this point you will need to configure each of your devices independently to access the VPN. I've had luck on Android and IOS. The best source for information regarding the VPN service at this point in time is accessible here: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2973

5) Yes, you can port over your telephone number. I have FTTN Voice at home, and aside from power outages (*shakes fist at PG&E*) it's very reliable - no dropped calls, fewer spam calls, great call quality. This is a new service for us, but as a support representative, I rarely receive reports of issues with the ATA/FTTN Voice. It just works.

6) I'm not in your area, but I do have FTTN. We require an installation to ensure the reliability of this service, and so far, it's been extremely reliable.

7) No data caps. Data caps are a business decision for the most part, and we're not interested in those practices.

Let us know if you have any other questions or if anything needs clarification.

[ryanlopez]

Thank you Dan T. for that info. So, from what you are saying, besides the work that may need to be done to my wiring, AT&T will install the new modem exactly where my current one is installed, assuming that's where I want it to go (which I do)? I just wanted to be clear on what kind of work they would be doing at my house so I could figure out how long it would likely take and where exactly in my house the technician is going to be working in. I'm mostly fine with it, but others in my household aren't crazy about a stranger roaming around setting stuff up in the house, though I can probably convince them to just deal with it.

I am fine with using a second router of my own and setting up QoS options on that. That isn't a waste of time though is it? By that I mean, the mandatory router doesn't just override my settings once the data passes to that does it? I'm assuming that setting it to DMZPlus Mode would mean that it does not, but I just wanted to be sure.

As for everything else, I think I got all the info I need. Thank you and pockyken007 again for your help. I'm thinking I'll switch it over, but I just wanted to clear up some things first.

[pmbell]

something to be aware of is fttn versus fttnx2

the x2 product runs two lines into your house and bonds them. you pay more per month, I think an additional 30 or so, and get higher throughput and a different modem. the fttn x2 modem is from Motorola, the fttn modem is from pace. my prior experience with pace equipment drove me to the x2 product.

if you want to, you can bridge the moto box to your router, which means your router winds up with the public IP address.

I run a pfsense box behind the motorola with no issues. it was an expensive box but I had wanted to look at pfsense anyway and a chunk of the price is contributed to the project.

there is a beta openvpn server running now which I have connected to with a router - but as yet not with pfsense, largely because I am not alone in the house and a have an openvpn account configured to a third party provider. adding the connection to sonic creates issues with my other VPN, the result of which means that to finish testing I'll need some time when I can bring the connection down.

however, most routers running dd-wrt derivatives, pfsense, and the edgerouter fork of vyatta should be able to connect and once connected pass all traffic to the internet over the VPN. this is what I am doing with my connection now, and not needing to configure each device is great.

I did get the edgerouter lite, a 100 buck device, to connect to the beta server with no issues.

[dct]

As long as the integrity of the wiring leading to that jack can reliably support the speeds of FTTN, there shouldn't be an issue installing it at its current location. Most installations take about an hour and a half or so, but your miles may vary.

In regard to your QoS question, I can't answer that authoritatively, but I believe the QoS you configure on your router will persist through the NAT to the WAN side of the AT&T modem.

[brownkowing]

1)
3) The gateway provided should be able to be put in DMZPlus Mode and allow Port Forwarding. Unfortunately, I do not believe that QoS options will be configurable from your end. You can plug the provided gateway into another router that has these options, however, and as long as the secondary router is DMZ'd or Port Forwarded, you should be able to configure your QoS settings from that device. I know this isn't preferable, but I just want to be sure you are aware of all of your options.

4) Yes, the VPN service is free, and it should be reliable. It is maintained by our engineers; it's awesome. At this point you will need to configure each of your devices independently to access the VPN. I've had luck on Android and IOS. The best source for information regarding the VPN service at this point in time is accessible here: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2973.

Jumping in here -- another soon to be ex-Legacy-DSL customer moving over to the FTTN service.

#3 means I can use my personal router as a secondary router, correct? My router is flashed with Tomato and a VPN already -- no configuration per device is necessary. Will I have a conflict with the Sonic provided VPN? My VPN is also used outside the home network so I can't see dropping that service (unless Sonic's VPN is accessible off the home network).

[dct]

1)
#3 means I can use my personal router as a secondary router, correct? My router is flashed with Tomato and a VPN already -- no configuration per device is necessary. Will I have a conflict with the Sonic provided VPN? My VPN is also used outside the home network so I can't see dropping that service (unless Sonic's VPN is accessible off the home network).

Yes, you can use a secondary router. And I can't see there being an issue with your configuration, since there is no VPN tunneling involved by default.

Also, Sonic's VPN is accessible off of the home network, as FTTN's IP's are off-network. I believe the primary intent of the VPN service is to bring that traffic back to our network, for users who are concerned about their privacy.

[Guest]

1. I've read that an AT&T worker will have to come into the house to install something (The Modem/Router, I guess it was). What exactly does that entail? Where do they need to install it? Is it the same as DSL where the modem needs to be connected to a phone line or something, or is there some other kind of work they would need to do? We have a standard AT&T landline phone as well right now that we would be getting rid of if getting Fusion FTTN.

They'll usually install it where you have your current device. Prior to installation they will check to see if the line is a twisted pair and if not, replace it. I would presume deciding to replace wires will depend on how things are currently set up. Once I showed the AT&T technician my network closet, he decided not to mess with it--I also insisted he not replace anything, just give me the gateway. Your gateway depends on what speed you get. Look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT%26T_Uv ... _equipment.

4. I've heard plenty of security and privacy concerns with the Fusion FTTN service as all your data pretty much goes through AT&T. As I understand it, Sonic provides some sort of VPN service for free. Is that correct, and is it reliable?

Sonic's FTTN VPN solution is not fully baked at this time. They have an OpenVPN beta and their older Cisco-based IPSec. They don't have IPSec site-to-site VPN yet although Dane had indicated that's in the works.

5. Can I port over my current AT&T phone number for use with the new VOIP phone? And how reliable is the VOIP phone? I've heard horror stories in the past of dropped calls and missed calls abound because of lost packets and such. I've also read that if the power goes out or the internet goes out, you lose your phone service, obviously. That's okay, most important phone calls we make are with our cell phones anyways.

Sonic's VoIP is stabilizing. Initially the VoIP ATA devices didn't reconnect to Sonic consistently after a local outage at a residence. These outages could be gateway reboots, loss of sync, power outages, etc. VoIP outage lasted for minutes to hours/days if people didn't use their phones. Things seem to be better recently. It's obvious they're still learning the product as more people subscribe. https://corp.sonic.net/status/2015/08/3 ... intenance/

6. To anyone who does use Fusion FTTN, how reliable is it in general? My Sonic DSL almost never dies on me, and when it does, it's usually no more than for an hour or two. Should I be expecting those times where the internet dies for 24+ hours? I live in Redwood City, CA, so if anyone with Fusion FTTN in that area can chime in, that'd be really appreciated.

When I first subscribed, the service was spotty for the first 2 days as the gateway resynced every couple of hours. Things seem to stabilize and resyncs/reboots occur every 10 days or so. I have not experienced FTTN going down for more than 24 hours. The most was a couple of hours but these were few and far inbetween. Most cases, the gateway reboots/resync and connectivity is restored in around 5 minutes, VoIP ATA behavior excepted.