Sonic.net

I have just bought Sonic and it is in the pre-construction stage. How long will it take to get service running from there. My internet is in Los Angeles County.

lbx78520 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2024 6:37 pm I have just bought Sonic and it is in the pre-construction stage. How long will it take to get service running from there. My internet is in Los Angeles County.

Thank you for pre-ordering our service. In the pre-construction stage of development, we apply for city permits to build our infrastructure around the city. We still need to do the construction phase where we have boots on the ground to build the infrastructure out.

Due to this still being in the early stages, we cannot provide an estimate for completion. Once we enter the construction phase and start getting things set-up, we can provide estimated time-lines for completion.

Kind regards,

When we do have estimated dates, you'll find them in the Fiber Status section of the Member Tools.

That said, I think you'll hear some valid criticism of the estimated dates we've published over the last two years. Many cities have begun to delay or to block our deployments, and the published dates as a result have been widely missed in some communities. We've struggled to meet the goals of providing accurate time-frames, because components like permit issuance or cities asking for some new agreement that other cities haven't required can add months or even years of delay. And some cities have just stopped projects entirely, by blocking key components of the utility infrastructure. Lots of challenges.

What can likely help is two things: more people in each community pre-ordering the service, and also those community members letting their City leadership know they are eager to see the new service installed without unreasonable obstruction or delay.

dane wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2024 1:50 pm Many cities have begun to delay or to block our deployments...

I'm curious, Dane. Do you see that as due to NIMBYism, challenges with internal city approval mechanisms (since that last time something of this scope was done was the cable TV build-out), or outright lobbying by the incumbents?

virtualmike wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2024 3:06 pm

dane wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2024 1:50 pm Many cities have begun to delay or to block our deployments...

I'm curious, Dane. Do you see that as due to NIMBYism, challenges with internal city approval mechanisms (since that last time something of this scope was done was the cable TV build-out), or outright lobbying by the incumbents?

It's a good question. Some of it seems to be a misunderstanding of the ideas around underground utilities. A number of cities have said "new utilities should be underground", which makes sense for new subdivision construction, and that's typical. And they haven't seen much in the way of new utilities on the existing aerial poles, so they don't quite know how to react, and they point towards their "new stuff must be underground" guidance. But undergrounding isn't something that can be done one utility at a time, and if we were to place a single new conduit underground below the pole line, that would make the eventual undergrounding of other things far more complex and costly. Instead, you continue to use the poles until everything on the poles can be moved underground together.

Other cities are saying "we don't allow new poles", and that's a standard intended to make new construction use underground utilities. Makes sense, but then they apply it when CPUC aerial construction safety standards require us to stand up a temporary pole adjacent to an existing one if the existing on is unsafe. That temporary safety bypass pole is kept then until the electric utility resolves their unsafe pole, then it's removed. This is routine and typical, and required by state standards (CPUC General Order 95), but cities are issuing a blanket "no new poles" guidance which then makes it impossible to deploy a new fiber-optic network because the electric utility always has some percentage of unsafe poles at any particular time.

Another city has said any new drops must be underground - again, a standard that make sense for new construction or significant rebuilds, where conduits can be placed to the pole for the electric as well as the communication utilities. But applying that to someone obtaining fiber as a new customer wouldn't make sense - they're not digging up their entire yard and infrastructure as you would during a permitted remodel or new construction.

Net effect though is no fiber deployment by Sonic in these communities. And they seem unable to understand why that's a problem, or why their policies don't make sense. This is new territory for them, nobody has put up an entirely new communications infrastructure since Cable TV in the 1980's.

Thanks, Dane. So, more of cities' not understanding what they're doing than the other issues.

virtualmike wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2024 6:16 pm Thanks, Dane. So, more of cities' not understanding what they're doing than the other issues.

Well, the misunderstanding of how utility infrastructure is deployed and maintained seems to be the starting point, but they’re obstinately sticking to their position, despite lots of negotiations and even legal process. Result is residents don’t get fiber, or it is much delayed. Quite frustrating.

I'm surprised the City Attorney in those jurisdictions isn't explaining the facts of 21st civil code life to them, especially after legal process!

dane wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2024 1:50 pm When we do have estimated dates, you'll find them in the Fiber Status section of the

What would be more helpful is something more granular than: “Pre-Construction”. Redondo Beach has been in that phase for almost a year. If there is no way to know that anything is even happening at all, it is basically useless (and very frustrating).

majortom wrote: ↑Thu Apr 25, 2024 10:40 am

dane wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2024 1:50 pm When we do have estimated dates, you'll find them in the Fiber Status section of the

What would be more helpful is something more granular than: “Pre-Construction”. Redondo Beach has been in that phase for almost a year. If there is no way to know that anything is even happening at all, it is basically useless (and very frustrating).

I checked our notes and it looks like we've been working there on site acquisition for a central office hut location. Current status seems to be that we're in dialog with the City about an easement where this could be placed on City property.

Processes like this take variable amounts of time, and have uncertain outcomes. Until we get completely through engineering and into construction with permits in hand, we aren't really able to provide any good estimates on timelines. It's widely variable, based upon whatever local requirements exist with both the infrastructure and City policies and processes.