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Re: "Real Sonic" fiber customers: How often does your IP address change?

Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2024 6:58 pm
by rcoaster
Valid points indeed, and I do know of others who have had challenges with analog/DSL copper line service, too. My experience here over the last 34 years has been stellar. I may have had my DSL (from Pac Bell, AT&T, or Sonic) go out for a few hours total since 1999, but I do not remember when it may have last happened. My voice service from the above providers has not gone out at all in 34 years that I can remember. All of this factors into my frequent "Should I maybe find a nicer/bigger house?" thoughts, too.

Re: "Real Sonic" fiber customers: How often does your IP address change?

Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 10:15 am
by wa2ibm
Also, keep in mind that the reliability of the old POTS services came about because there were no "active" components on the line between you and the Central Office which has a very robust power system. Most of the newer IP-based services do have "active" components that require power in the field beyond the Central Office such as cable system amplifiers or DSL Remote DSLAM's. Power failures in the field are the primary reason that VoIP services have a less-than-stellar reliability issue.

However, with the various flavors of PON (Passive Optical Network) fiber networks, there are no requirements for field power, thus a return to a very reliable network is attained. Additionally, the non-metallic nature of fiber increases its reliability over the old copper wires that are subject to rain intrusion. The only things that stand in the way of the reliability of the fiber network are the same things that affect the copper network such as vandalism, a BIF (Backhoe Induced Failure) or other mechanical disruptions of the network due to storms or traffic accidents.

I have finally given up on my copper lines and, instead, have VoIP lines that are very reliable until one of my internet connections goes down for one of the above reasons (I don't yet have fiber available to me).

Bill

Re: "Real Sonic" fiber customers: How often does your IP address change?

Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2024 3:53 pm
by rcoaster
wa2ibm wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2024 10:15 am Also, keep in mind that the reliability of the old POTS services came about because there were no "active" components on the line between you and the Central Office which has a very robust power system.
This is exactly the case with my Sonic Fusion DSL service. I appreciate your notes about PONs and other systems.

Re: "Real Sonic" fiber customers: How often does your IP address change?

Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 1:08 pm
by gnu
By the way -- copper telco cables are not the only ones that start to fail in the rain. Fiber cables also fail when the fibers get wet. Each individual fiber within the cable depends on "total internal reflection" to get a faint signal through to the other end without too much loss. If the fiber gets wet, some of the light refracts out and that portion of the light does not make it to the other end of the fiber. Each fiber cable contains a bundle of individual fibers (each of which has a thin coating of plastic over it), plus a fat plastic "strength member" for pulling, and an external plastic sheath covering the whole cable. Inside that covering, they surround the individual fibers with "gel" that repels water, in the hope that even if water gets into the cable, it won't touch the surfaces of the fibers themselves. There are also problems with freezing and with water expanding the plastic layers and then breaking the fiber. See: https://www.techdim.com/can-fiber-optic-cables-get-wet/

Re: "Real Sonic" fiber customers: How often does your IP address change?

Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2024 9:47 pm
by rcoaster
Interesting notes, gnu. Thank you for posting them.

Re: "Real Sonic" fiber customers: How often does your IP address change?

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2024 1:34 pm
by doctorfb
Greetings, All.
I'm in a similar situation to rcoaster. I have dual DSL bonded lines ("business grade") to my house, a few static IPs and my two "landlines" via Sonic. I run my own email & web servers. I, too, received the email from Sonic about AT&T and the copper lines and extra fees with a dubious future for continued service. I saw Sonic trucks roaming in my neighborhood at the beginning of this year and it seems fiber is available in my area, according to the Sonic Availability address lookup page.
I have so many questions, but let me see if I can distill them to just a few (Ya, I see I failed on that. Sorry!):
Q: The fiber connect on my end would be "ethernet" via an RJ45 jack? I presume I would plug this into my firewall or router? What if I have more than one machine I need to be public facing (eg: a mail server and web server and one more host I use for direct internet testing)? Can I plug this RJ45 into a hub (a dumb router) and have multiple machines plug into that? Will they each get an IP address or are we consumers only allowed one IP address?
Q: As I understand it, this fiber connect is "DHCP" only with no option for static IPs. Not even if I'm ordering this as a Businees grade connection? That's what my DSL is now. Is there really no option for this kind of usage? Sonic's description for a Busness fiber connect (called Fusion Fiber?) isn't very clear on the subject.
Q: Phone lines over this appear to be VOIP. How is that configured? I have two phone lines (one to a base unit with answer machine and several wireless handsets, and the other plugs into my printer for fax...yes, I still use fax once in a blue moon, but it's really just a secondary phone line). Do I have to replace all of that with VOIP phones? What about the fax? How would the phone lines be "registered" with a specific "phone"? Are there VOIP base phones with multiple hand units (I haven't researched this yet)?
Q: Installation: will it be possible to have both my DSL lines and a fiber connection to the same house at least for a short time? I would need some time to migrate over to using some Dynamic DNS service for my public hosts, so chopping off DSL to get fiber would interrupt that which would be a real problem for me to fix quickly. Once I'd gotten that done I'd drop the DSL connection, of course.
Q: IPv6: what would be given to hosts? A prefix only? An address within a prefix? Is the prefix fixed it will that change too? Is there an RA to supply the next hop gateway or is that a fixed IP within a prefix? DHCPv6 or SLAAC?
Sorry for all the questions, but I have to know all of this to make a plan moving forward.

Re: "Real Sonic" fiber customers: How often does your IP address change?

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2024 9:07 pm
by rcoaster
Hi, doctorfb-

You have some very good questions. I can only give you "guess" answers based on my own research and questions so far.

-Sonic will provide a device at your location that converts fiber to one RJ-45 Ethernet jack if I understand things right. They -may- offer a "router" or "gateway" box, but based on your existing system, you will probably not want that if you have a choice. (I will not want it either.)

-Your question about multiple IP addresses from Sonic is a good one. They may offer that as an add-on service but I doubt that it is included in the basic connection. It likely works either of two ways:

-If it does work the way I mentioned above (a "dumb" fiber-to-copper device), you would likely just connect a "gigabit switch" or "ten-gigabit switch" to the RJ-45 jack that Sonic provides, and then the various devices you connect to the switch you provide would each ask for and receive an IP address from Sonic, up to the limit of your account with them.

-If it does not work that way (or if Sonic does not even offer multiple IP addresses per fiber connection), then Sonic's fiber-to-RJ-45 device itself will do the DHCP function such that you -will- need to use a router rather than a switch after it, or you will need to use a router/gateway device that Sonic provides. In this case, routing to your various equipment will have to be set up in the router that you or Sonic will provide, similar to what you are doing now.

Re: "Real Sonic" fiber customers: How often does your IP address change?

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2024 9:18 pm
by rcoaster
Additional notes:

-I would think that Sonic can install your new fiber service without disconnecting your DSL line(s) first.

-If you saw the post from Jeff earlier, Sonic can potentially offer fiber along with copper phone service at the same time, so you may not have to accept VoIP service at all.

-I do not know the "nuts and bolts" of VoIP service, but I am pretty sure that Sonic's fiber-to-copper device(s) will have a MAC address or similar that Sonic will use to route your phone number(s) to their RJ-11/RJ-14 jacks as appropriate. (I am likely going to ask for the fiber-plus-copper service I mentioned above, or to switch my existing phone number to another provider because Sonic's VoIP does not support pulse/rotary dialing, which is a definite requirement for me.)

-IPv6 is way "above my head" still at this point, so I have no advice or comments regarding it. :)

I will be happy to see comments from Sonic or others regarding your questions, too.

Re: "Real Sonic" fiber customers: How often does your IP address change?

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2024 4:17 pm
by doctorfb
rcoaster wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 9:18 pm -I do not know the "nuts and bolts" of VoIP service, but I am pretty sure that Sonic's fiber-to-copper device(s) will have a MAC address or similar that Sonic will use to route your phone number(s) to their RJ-11/RJ-14 jacks as appropriate. (I am likely going to ask for the fiber-plus-copper service I mentioned above, or to switch my existing phone number to another provider because Sonic's VoIP does not support pulse/rotary dialing, which is a definite requirement for me.)
My friend has Sonic's Fiber To The Node ("fttn"), which is a box somewhere on a telephone pole near him, and that then connects to him over copper to his house (with a Sonic "router" box at the end point). Might be something like xDSL protocol over the copper, but at much higher speeds.
Anyway, after some research I believe I can answer my own questions on VoIP. There are a number of VoIP terminal products available (Eg: Grandstream GS-HT802 2 Port Analog Telephone Adapter VoIP Phone & Device) which allows you to plug your old RJ11 phone into. These use SIP profiles, the config of which is provided by whom ever is your VoIP provided (Sonic in this case) and connect the device with your phone number. VoIP is just data packets over IP. So, I can live with VoIP, I guess. It won't be quite as reliable in a power outage but with a UPS on it, it should be "good enough" for short term outages.
I see Sonic has their own ONT device they offer (eg: AdTran 822v), and that could also provide RJ11 jacks. But I think I'll prefer to provide my own equipment, if possible.
If we consumers get only one IP address, I guess I'll have to do port-forwarding from my firewall. Not ideal, but I can make it work.
This is all assuming we ever get Fiber in my neighborhood! Darn'd City is causing problems, I hear. Or maybe it's AT&T/PG&E who "own" the poles that are the problem, not wanting to let others play with "their" ball? I don't really know. The City made a huge mistake in letting these companies "own" things, IMHO.
I'm hoping someone from Sonic will pipe up on my my other questions.

Re: "Real Sonic" fiber customers: How often does your IP address change?

Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2024 11:15 am
by doctorfb
I'd really appreciate it if someone from Sonic would reply to my original post (Fri Apr 12, 2024 12:34 pm) containing questions. There's so many negatives I see concerning being forced to Dynamic IP for me that I'm considering that fiber will not really be a viable option.
For example, I run my own email server. I'm currently finding some other mail ISPs won't accept mail from my domain because it's overlayed on to my static ip that matches a specific format that the ISP won't allow. See here for an example of a reject notice I received trying to reply to someone asking me for help:
https://postmaster.gmx.net/en/case?c=r0 ... lFZ-00eweo
Honestly I don't know how to get around this. I'm pretty sure Sonic won't be willing to assign their rDNS record to point to my mail domain host. I really don't understand their policy strictness but since I can't even email them a question I guess I'll never know. More impotantly, if/when I'm moved to fiber and forced to have a Dynamic IP things will only get worse for me. I've looked at getting a Dynamic DNS assignment, but it amounts to the same problem for that ISP. They simply will not permit it because it doesn't meet their policy.
I run my own mail server and doman for a reason and I'm not willing to give that up. I guess I'm in the minority these days.