Fusion price increase and fiber expansion

[pockyken007]

Bye bye to all the whiny quitters I hope you won't be coming back when fiber is available in your area because then your argument of "I don't have fiber so I am not going to sponsor the roll out" becomes null and invalid ( since at that point somebody else paid for your roll out ) ... And to those who complain about price increase I dare you heck I double dare you to find an ISP that has the same level of service , privacy policy and no data caps for the price that sonic offers ... All of you mention comcast and ATT sure intro rates from those two companies look interesting and after the intro rate expires you are getting screwed over and have to play retention game ( have fun with that ) LOL , not to mention deep packet scanning and data caps ... LOL LOL .

Bye bye Felicia(s) don't let the door hit ya all .

Most people haven't been very whiny, at least as of late. Let me ask you this - how long have you been with Sonic? I'd guess that you haven't been with Sonic as long as many of the "whiners" have - many being with Sonic since at least 2010, if not much earlier. You therefore probably haven't "contributed" to your fiber line as much as they have. What's wrong with those customers taking a leave of absence, coming back when fiber is available, and then getting the same benefit that any newcomer would have? What of those just moving into the area, or switching from AT&T or Comcast? Should they be stigmatized for not "contributing" to the build-out? Therein lies the flaw in your logic. What's wrong with anyone doing that? To Sonic, losing customers is undesirable, but gaining customers (even former customers) is always desirable, which is why you don't see Dane /Sonic belittling these customers, although you seem very happy to do so (hurting Sonic's reputation, in the process).

Sonic isn't the only "populist" ISP in the region - alternatives exist: Raw Bandwidth, LMI, MonkeyBrains, and DSL Extreme - to name a few. I'll take you up on your wager about alternatives - I did a cost comparison between MonkeyBrains paired with a VoIP carrier vs Sonic FTTN at 24Mbps (<= 6Mbps with Sonic is a lost cause). In San Francisco, Sonic FTTN now costs ~$67. If you sign up with MB, you pay $35/mo with a $250 installation fee. If you don't care for phone service, the amortized monthly cost in the first year is $55.83/mo, and the second year is only $35/mo. If you want phone service, add a $50 Obi200 and get PhonePower for $5/mo. The amortized cost in the first year is $65/mo and $40/mo in subsequent years. If you don't have a WiFi AP/router, throw one into the mix - almost anything is better than the Pace devices that are paired with FTTN service.

So let me get this straight the same users who complain about subsidizing somebody else build out and are quitting in throngs are ok with somebody else subsidizing their build out and then coming back ? #LogicFTW.

I am not including new users in this equation as it is not their fault they joined just now but since they joined they are now contributing to the future build out ... so they are doing something good ... also if you read Dane's post carefully you would notice he mentions it several times that the reason for increase is that they don't have enough capital to continue the build out so leaving is now is like shooting yourself in the leg , by leaving you are hindering progress of the build out ... therefore ultimately you are hindering yourself or the guy next door from getting fiber.

Also as a counter argument one could argue that " haves " should not be paying for " have nots " basically speaking using the same logic that " have nots " are using and reversing it ... give me one good reason why somebody who already has fiber should be paying for somebody who doesn't ? If I already have my " toy " what reason aside from being an altruist is there for me to subsidize the " have nots " ?

The price comparison comes close enough for the first year ( after that the price differentiates to some degree ) and I am thankful for the comparison and math behind it ( kudos to you ) .

As for me being a member I have two residences in San Francisco ( both of them in the avenues area ) one used to be my primary address till I got married and moved out ( my parents took over my old lease and live at my old place now ) . We have been sonic customers at my old residence since the last few months of 2009 ( would have to look up exact date but as far as I remember it was 10/2009 ) and at my new residence since 2 years ago when I moved in there with my wife . I have also converted 3 friends to sonic and advocated for Sonic at city hall meetings and my local community meetings ( which lead to some more people joining in ) so yeah I think I " contributed " enough

[[email protected]]

I'm dismayed by the $10 rate increase and the non-negotiable policy. Tech support wait times, landline drop offs, and slow speed (in my service location) do not merit this increase.

[pockyken007]

I'm dismayed by the $10 rate increase and the non-negotiable policy. Tech support wait times, landline drop offs, and slow speed (in my service location) do not merit this increase.

You do realize the fact that sonic hasn't increased prices for their services in ages ?

[dane]

I have really appreciated Sonic for years, but when I moved to Windsor, nothing was available. Then, this past year, VOIP Fusion was available. I have been pretty disappointed in VOIP and Sonic has no plans to go to fiber in my area for over 10 years. I don't appreciate that those of us who have tried to be faithful customers of our local ISP are now getting short-shrift. I've had issue upon issue with my service. Yes, some other customer in the bay area will reap the benefits of an extra $10 bucks on my bill, but not me. Dane, why have you forsaken your base?

We would forsake our base if we give up on building new fiber networks, relegating our customers to DSL and resale (FTTN). That would be a dead end for all of us, the members, and the company.

[Guest]

I'm dismayed by the $10 rate increase and the non-negotiable policy. Tech support wait times, landline drop offs, and slow speed (in my service location) do not merit this increase.

You do realize the fact that sonic hasn't increased prices for their services in ages ?

Well, the mandatory modem rental isn't that old. And, please, remind me again how $70/mo ($50/mo for service, $10/mo for "taxes", $10/mo for modem rental) for 3 Mbit ADSL is competitive.

It feels like I've been with Sonic for maybe fifteen or sixteen years now. If fiber weren't available, I'd probably have switched to Comcast when the price increase kicked in.

[pockyken007]

Sigh let me explain basic economics to you .... I bet you 100$ that when you signed up for your 3 MBIT ADSL service back then it was top tier speed ( therefore it cost you that much duh ) ... now that the technology advanced one has to wonder why didn't you ask SONIC to upgrade you to faster speeds so you get more bang for the buck . ( distance from CO / living the middle of nowhere / etc . can all be factors why not but I would love to hear your reasoning ) also since you have been with the company for so long and waited so long for fiber you could do what others suggested and jump ship wait for fiber deployment and then jump ship again ... but you didn't which means either one of two things ... you believed in Sonic and decided to stick it out or you are a masochist ?

[steve123999]

Internet + Phone from $40 per month. Uncapped, Unlimited. Join at http://sonic.com or 1-888-766-4233. Support hours: 8am-10pm http://www.instagram.com/sonic/ ?

Are you still honoring this sonic? If so, please revise my invoice/receipt.

[dane]

Yes, that is the introductory price, for residential single-line (X1) service, for the first year.

[customerInExcelsior]

So let me get this straight the same users who complain about subsidizing somebody else build out and are quitting in throngs are ok with somebody else subsidizing their build out and then coming back ? #LogicFTW.

Why not? Some of those now signing up for Sonic Fiber may have chosen Comcast precisely because of poor Sonic speeds, and now that Fiber is being deployed, they're jumping (back) on the bandwagon. I know this is the case for at least one person because my friend left Sonic when he moved. He signed up for Comcast because he went from 12Mbps with Sonic to 2.5Mbps (max) at his new location. Do you fault someone who telecommutes for jumping off the bandwagon when they can't get a solid 2Mbps without constant resyncs? I don't - I call it common (consumer) sense. If I were Sonic, would I blame him for "leeching" off of other Sonic subscribers now that he's signed up for Fiber? I wouldn't because I'd be happy to have him back as a paying customer.

I am not including new users in this equation as it is not their fault they joined just now but since they joined they are now contributing to the future build out ... so they are doing something good

So how is it that those who come back aren't in the same boat of contributing to the future build out?

... also if you read Dane's post carefully you would notice he mentions it several times that the reason for increase is that they don't have enough capital to continue the build out so leaving is now is like shooting yourself in the leg , by leaving you are hindering progress of the build out ... therefore ultimately you are hindering yourself or the guy next door from getting fiber.

Sure, but Sonic is a business, not an NGO, co-op, nor commune. It's great that they have fans - I'm still rooting for them - but they provide a service in exchange for hard-earned dollars. They are *NOT* the only company working towards better connectivity options for Bay Areans either, so I don't think anyone is doing their community any harm if they jumped to LMI (an ISP that is deploying fiber in the East Bay) or Monkeybrains (a SF WISP that would love to micro-trench fiber).

Also as a counter argument one could argue that " haves " should not be paying for " have nots " basically speaking using the same logic that " have nots " are using and reversing it ... give me one good reason why somebody who already has fiber should be paying for somebody who doesn't ? If I already have my " toy " what reason aside from being an altruist is there for me to subsidize the " have nots " ?

To use another analogy, that's "robbing" (or "extorting") from the poor and giving to the rich, which is why so many people are averse to the idea.

As for me being a member I have two residences in San Francisco ( both of them in the avenues area ) one used to be my primary address till I got married and moved out ( my parents took over my old lease and live at my old place now ) . We have been sonic customers at my old residence since the last few months of 2009 ( would have to look up exact date but as far as I remember it was 10/2009 ) and at my new residence since 2 years ago when I moved in there with my wife . I have also converted 3 friends to sonic and advocated for Sonic at city hall meetings and my local community meetings ( which lead to some more people joining in ) so yeah I think I " contributed " enough ;)

I applaud you for your enthusiastic support - both financially and in community meetings - and I can understand your frustration with what you perceive to be an inequity of contributions to Sonic's mission, as well as your concern that others would be left out. Your dismissive tone is doing nothing to convince them to stay, however.

The method by which Sonic decides where to build out Fiber is far from equitable - although definitely sustainable for the business. Customers in low(er)-uptake areas are asked to rally on Sonic's behalf, very often in great futility because those areas are generally under-served by Sonic and will continue to be under-served, as they aren't provably, economically viable. Customers in those areas should not have to rally the troops to sign up for inferior service so that Sonic can be convinced to deploy their infrastructure to their neighborhoods - they should convinced to sign up/stay with compelling value, and not some vague promise. If I were to rally the troops, I'd much rather create a co-op to augment Sonic's efforts, as they will not be deploying Fiber to the Southeastern districts of SF anytime soon.

I'll put my money where my mouth is again, though - if Sonic wants to crowd-source Fiber roll-outs (the right way, with minimal risk to business and customer), I'm willing to pay a $2,500 installation fee (like I did with Monkeybrains) if they'll deploy in my neighborhood within the next six months. I'm sure there would be many others like me at lower pledge points. In this regard, Monkeybrains has done a much better job of convincing adopters to sign up, as there is a measurable benefit on both sides of the transaction. I'm rehashing my older statements and arguments, but so are you. :)

[Guest]

Sigh let me explain basic economics to you .... I bet you 100$ that when you signed up for your 3 MBIT ADSL service back then it was top tier speed ( therefore it cost you that much duh ) ... now that the technology advanced one has to wonder why didn't you ask SONIC to upgrade you to faster speeds so you get more bang for the buck . ( distance from CO / living the middle of nowhere / etc . can all be factors why not but I would love to hear your reasoning ) also since you have been with the company for so long and waited so long for fiber you could do what others suggested and jump ship wait for fiber deployment and then jump ship again ... but you didn't which means either one of two things ... you believed in Sonic and decided to stick it out or you are a masochist ?

You'd guess wrong. When I signed up the best I could get was 1.5 Mbps (if memory services it was G.dmt so max of about 6 Mbps, let me know how you'd like to pay out that $100.). Not great, but the differential was much smaller than it is now. Eventually Fusion was rolled out so I upgraded and without a cap my line is able to handle about 3-4 Mbps depending on the weather. In San Francisco. Still a poor value, but again a relatively small differential. Of course out here in the Sunset it's been cable or DSL only for a long time now.

Now Sonic is asking their 3 Mbit and 1000 Mbit customers to pay the same costs despite the gigabit customers incurring significantly higher infrastructure costs. At no point was I paying $70/mo for 3 Mbit service.

Sure, I believed in Sonic... back when you didn't have to wait on hold forever to talk to a rep. Back when you weren't required to rent a glitchy modem. When you could get a static IP and reverse DNS. When the alternatives weren't significantly faster. When you didn't have to call to remind them to lower your monthly rates (remember when Sonic played those games?).

Back in 2008 I sat down with my then boss and the CEO, called up Sonic, got through on one ring, had a brief sales chat and turned to them and said this is who you should go with. Now? A couple weeks ago my landlord asked for an ISP recommendation and the best I could do was Comcast followed by a highly qualified recommendation Sonic.

Raising rates on the DSL products (even the U-Verse ones) just sucks. I'm looking at the other line I've got (not in SF, close to the CO). I can get 20 Mbit or 30 Mbit Fusion "X1" ($70/mo), 60 Mbit Fusion "X2" ($90/mo) or 100 Mbit Comcast ($40 + taxes and modem so maybe $60?).