Sonic.net

customerInExcelsior wrote:I think this thread has run its course - nothing will change, except for the price increase, so figure out some way to deal with it. Further mud slinging isn't going to change things.

Well written.

Looks like Dane has given some more details about the price increase. The increase will only apply to month-to-month contracts and the 12-month initial intro rate will still be $40/month.

It appears people who are not happy and voicing their opinions in this thread is just disappointed Sonic is doing it. While it's easy to take Dane's talks at face value in that the cost of transport is constantly decreasing, most will ignore that their major cost of running the company is headcount. Now that they have to hire more people it's quite apparent the cost of the technology going down will not totally offset their costs to hire more people to support fiber expansion.

Keep in mind when AT&T, Comcast, and other ILECs raise rates they don't provide as much information why other than some vague, general description. I see what Sonic is doing in giving this much detail in their price increase is a double-edged sword. There will always be those who want--or demand--more transparency to make sure their money is used the way they want and not at the discretion of the company. For these people I think they should think about what they want from an ISP and act according. If you're not happy, vote with your wallet. But never forget, be happy you have a choice. Then try to think about people who have no choice and they're stuck with an ILEC who raise rates every year and they have to accept it or go dark.

dane wrote:It shouldn't be a big surprise, but the number one request by Sonic members today is for faster service. We see this every day, in our annual customer satisfaction surveys, and in exit surveys for those who depart.

[...]

In regards to debt, I should address this point specifically, because it ties in to the reason for a price increase from $40 to $50 for Fusion service. Clearly, we've built a pretty sizable fiber network already, and I am pleased to say that today we serve out of of ten Sonic members with a gigabit fiber connection right now. But we will soon reach the end of our ability to borrow funds to build more fiber, because our debt is tied to the limits of our current revenue. Like any other loan, the size of the debt is limited by the ability to pay it off, and without substantially more debt capital, we cannot built more fiber.

So we could stop, but doing so would give up on the mission our whole company and team is focused on: to build a faster, friendlier, more private and better Internet connection for Sonic members, an alternative to duopoly cable/telco, an unlimited service, and a compelling value. Fast access to the Internet shouldn't just be available from the cable company - you deserve a better alternative.

I do hope that you will take an interest in our mission, and I hope that you will help us achieve it by being a Member of Sonic.

Dane,

You and Sonic have a lot going for you, I give you that. But when I read your mission statement, I don't see Customer Experience being the top priority, and as a - now - former customer, my feedback to you is that it's more than just starting to show. ('Friendlier' really can mean a lot of things and is relative, given that e.g. Comcast doesn't set the bar very high for that...)

You can run and (!) grow a successful business and still deliver exceptional customer experiences, which more and more companies have been demonstrating. And customer experience IS personal! That means understanding and addressing the needs and concerns of the individual customer. When it comes to that, Sonic has either ignored or completely misunderstood all its customers who are not in a position to get the product you are praising, now, in the near future, or possibly ever.

The way this price increase has been communicated and is being rolled out to everyone more than suggests that this was a pure balance sheet-based decision, justified with the need and priority to be able to raise your debt ceiling. (Did the Netflix disaster a couple years ago not provide a good enough case study?)

The single pricing model worked very well for the technology and service up to and including ADSL2+ and FTTN, but with the introduction of Fiber the difference in performance is so vastly different that people can't help but to start feeling being taken advantage of if they can't get Fiber.

Many people here have stated that they'd be happy to pay more for faster service, no one did state they'd be happy to pay more for the same old and slow service. Needless to say, I agree with that.

A temporary tiered approach until you've rolled out Fiber everywhere would - possibly still could - have been a much more customer friendly approach:

1. Fiber 1000 (1Gbs): $70/month
2. Fiber 100 (100 Mbps): $60/month (artificial cap)
3. Fusion 25 Mbps+ : $50/month
4. Fusion up to 25 Mbps: $40/month

And once you've reached widespread adoption of your new fiber network, you could do again what you did previously, go back to a single price offer, possibly even lower the price for the Gigabit product.

Not to drag politics into this, but seeing that Trump apparently is picking a former Verizon lawyer to head FCC, someone who doesn't give a sh*t about anything but corporate profits, I truly do hope that you guys are reconsidering your approach and find a solution that delivers a better experience for every customer. I would be headed over to the Sonic sign-up page again, no doubt, when that happens.

So long!

As someone who has been a long time Sonic customer despite never really having a connection above 4mbps due to attenuation / distance, and as someone who has in the past had great respect for Sonic's support (Which needs to be SUBSTANTIALLY bolstered. Honestly, wait times have gone through the roof since FTTN went live, it seems.), AND as someone who has referred others to Sonic directly, or through other companies who resell sonic service (Like in Ukiah), I feel I owe it to you at Sonic to give my 2 cents, even though it seems abundantly clear that it will have little to no impact on the overall discussion taking place here.

I admit that I have similar concerns to many who have already posted. We personally currently live outside of the fusion service area. We DIDN'T BEFORE, but if you search for our address now, it's not available. We DO have U-Verse / Sonic FTTN available here now, but given that Sonic is using ATT hardware, and their DNS, the presumed privacy that Sonic seems to champion is not applicable under FTTN unless you use their meager VPN service, which adds substantial latency to your connection, noticeable especially if you live with people who game. You're basically buying a U-Verse business account through Sonic, and have access to Sonic's support, who have more sway with ATT. I appreciate that Sonic does this, despite my complaints. It's at least SOMETHING. But the organic Sonic fiber infrastructure is arguably where it's at. And that brings me to my concerns.

As someone who lives outside the city, I have been patiently waiting to see how Sonic expands their fiber infrastructure in the town where they first started building it, Sebastopol. Needless to say, their expansion map, of course, covers downtown, and up to the high school. But nowhere on the map does it come close to being attainable here any time soon. While I couldn't blame them at the time this map was published (While still paying the same price), as there isn't much consumer density (profit) out here, I can personally admit that raising the price by $10 dollars a month, $120 dollars a year extra on top of the bill we already receive, so that sonic can build out their infrastructure elsewhere is not exactly soothing my nerves. Call me selfish. Instead, it feels like an abuse of a captive audience for something that will benefit some, maybe, but leverage the good faith and wallets of many rural internet users, some of which you technically don't offer Fusion service to anymore on your site. Yes, I can switch, but to who? ATT? Comcast? Please understand, Dane, and Sonic, the risks associated with your position of being an alternative ISP. Don't become just another ISP. I feel that respectability, good consumer faith, and good value for the consumer is arguably the best currency you can have as a business (Unless of course you're publicly traded). While, in my eyes, Sonic's respectability has yet to be entirely tarnished, I feel it has a lot to prove if this price hike goes live, because my faith in the company is shaken, and I don't believe I will see the value resultant from this price hike, at least not in my neck of the woods. Again, this is selfish of me, and I am not focusing on the larger picture here, but maybe that leads the term "idealism tax" to such applicability in this context. And i dread to think of the call volumes when the uninformed call to complain about this "idealism tax."

In the end, you might make more in your pocket book to fund projects, and i guess the money has to come from somewhere, but you risk losing consumers if you're not being price competitive, and more importantly, you risk one of the few defining aspects that drew me Sonic in the first place, value and good faith...

Here's to proving my uneducated, uninformed, and baseless speculations inaccurate. *clink*

+1
Sonic - you should add the feature so other people can 'like "this so you and Dane can get the idea that we also agree with this author.

(ex) torstenb wrote:

dane wrote:It shouldn't be a big surprise, but the number one request by Sonic members today is for faster service. We see this every day, in our annual customer satisfaction surveys, and in exit surveys for those who depart.

[...]

In regards to debt, I should address this point specifically, because it ties in to the reason for a price increase from $40 to $50 for Fusion service. Clearly, we've built a pretty sizable fiber network already, and I am pleased to say that today we serve out of of ten Sonic members with a gigabit fiber connection right now. But we will soon reach the end of our ability to borrow funds to build more fiber, because our debt is tied to the limits of our current revenue. Like any other loan, the size of the debt is limited by the ability to pay it off, and without substantially more debt capital, we cannot built more fiber.

So we could stop, but doing so would give up on the mission our whole company and team is focused on: to build a faster, friendlier, more private and better Internet connection for Sonic members, an alternative to duopoly cable/telco, an unlimited service, and a compelling value. Fast access to the Internet shouldn't just be available from the cable company - you deserve a better alternative.

I do hope that you will take an interest in our mission, and I hope that you will help us achieve it by being a Member of Sonic.

Dane,

You and Sonic have a lot going for you, I give you that. But when I read your mission statement, I don't see Customer Experience being the top priority, and as a - now - former customer, my feedback to you is that it's more than just starting to show. ('Friendlier' really can mean a lot of things and is relative, given that e.g. Comcast doesn't set the bar very high for that...)

You can run and (!) grow a successful business and still deliver exceptional customer experiences, which more and more companies have been demonstrating. And customer experience IS personal! That means understanding and addressing the needs and concerns of the individual customer. When it comes to that, Sonic has either ignored or completely misunderstood all its customers who are not in a position to get the product you are praising, now, in the near future, or possibly ever.

The way this price increase has been communicated and is being rolled out to everyone more than suggests that this was a pure balance sheet-based decision, justified with the need and priority to be able to raise your debt ceiling. (Did the Netflix disaster a couple years ago not provide a good enough case study?)

The single pricing model worked very well for the technology and service up to and including ADSL2+ and FTTN, but with the introduction of Fiber the difference in performance is so vastly different that people can't help but to start feeling being taken advantage of if they can't get Fiber.

Many people here have stated that they'd be happy to pay more for faster service, no one did state they'd be happy to pay more for the same old and slow service. Needless to say, I agree with that.

A temporary tiered approach until you've rolled out Fiber everywhere would - possibly still could - have been a much more customer friendly approach:

1. Fiber 1000 (1Gbs): $70/month
2. Fiber 100 (100 Mbps): $60/month (artificial cap)
3. Fusion 25 Mbps+ : $50/month
4. Fusion up to 25 Mbps: $40/month

And once you've reached widespread adoption of your new fiber network, you could do again what you did previously, go back to a single price offer, possibly even lower the price for the Gigabit product.

Not to drag politics into this, but seeing that Trump apparently is picking a former Verizon lawyer to head FCC, someone who doesn't give a sh*t about anything but corporate profits, I truly do hope that you guys are reconsidering your approach and find a solution that delivers a better experience for every customer. I would be headed over to the Sonic sign-up page again, no doubt, when that happens.

So long!

+1 (well said!!!)

Sonic - you should add the feature so other people can 'like "this so you and Dane can get the idea that we also agree with this author.

Boonies wrote:As someone who has been a long time Sonic customer despite never really having a connection above 4mbps due to attenuation / distance, and as someone who has in the past had great respect for Sonic's support (Which needs to be SUBSTANTIALLY bolstered. Honestly, wait times have gone through the roof since FTTN went live, it seems.), AND as someone who has referred others to Sonic directly, or through other companies who resell sonic service (Like in Ukiah), I feel I owe it to you at Sonic to give my 2 cents, even though it seems abundantly clear that it will have little to no impact on the overall discussion taking place here.

I admit that I have similar concerns to many who have already posted. We personally currently live outside of the fusion service area. We DIDN'T BEFORE, but if you search for our address now, it's not available. We DO have U-Verse / Sonic FTTN available here now, but given that Sonic is using ATT hardware, and their DNS, the presumed privacy that Sonic seems to champion is not applicable under FTTN unless you use their meager VPN service, which adds substantial latency to your connection, noticeable especially if you live with people who game. You're basically buying a U-Verse business account through Sonic, and have access to Sonic's support, who have more sway with ATT. I appreciate that Sonic does this, despite my complaints. It's at least SOMETHING. But the organic Sonic fiber infrastructure is arguably where it's at. And that brings me to my concerns.

As someone who lives outside the city, I have been patiently waiting to see how Sonic expands their fiber infrastructure in the town where they first started building it, Sebastopol. Needless to say, their expansion map, of course, covers downtown, and up to the high school. But nowhere on the map does it come close to being attainable here any time soon. While I couldn't blame them at the time this map was published (While still paying the same price), as there isn't much consumer density (profit) out here, I can personally admit that raising the price by $10 dollars a month, $120 dollars a year extra on top of the bill we already receive, so that sonic can build out their infrastructure elsewhere is not exactly soothing my nerves. Call me selfish. Instead, it feels like an abuse of a captive audience for something that will benefit some, maybe, but leverage the good faith and wallets of many rural internet users, some of which you technically don't offer Fusion service to anymore on your site. Yes, I can switch, but to who? ATT? Comcast? Please understand, Dane, and Sonic, the risks associated with your position of being an alternative ISP. Don't become just another ISP. I feel that respectability, good consumer faith, and good value for the consumer is arguably the best currency you can have as a business (Unless of course you're publicly traded). While, in my eyes, Sonic's respectability has yet to be entirely tarnished, I feel it has a lot to prove if this price hike goes live, because my faith in the company is shaken, and I don't believe I will see the value resultant from this price hike, at least not in my neck of the woods. Again, this is selfish of me, and I am not focusing on the larger picture here, but maybe that leads the term "idealism tax" to such applicability in this context. And i dread to think of the call volumes when the uninformed call to complain about this "idealism tax."

In the end, you might make more in your pocket book to fund projects, and i guess the money has to come from somewhere, but you risk losing consumers if you're not being price competitive, and more importantly, you risk one of the few defining aspects that drew me Sonic in the first place, value and good faith...

Here's to proving my uneducated, uninformed, and baseless speculations inaccurate. *clink*

Any idea when fiber will come to Concord/Pleasant hill area ?

dane wrote:Richmond, Sunset and Parkside are wrapping up, and you will see other SF neighborhoods coming up soon. The first of these is already quietly under construction, and will go live for pre-orders shortly, and many more will follow. Two additional cities are also in engineering and permitting, and three others are in the earlier stages. (For those in Sonoma County: yes, some of these are expansion here!)

I know you probably cannot divulge exactly which SF neighborhoods are coming up next, but do you have any information you could provide as to when we may expect an announcement for the ones you indicate are coming up soon?

Thanks!
Kyle

kyle.depasquale wrote:

dane wrote:Richmond, Sunset and Parkside are wrapping up, and you will see other SF neighborhoods coming up soon. The first of these is already quietly under construction, and will go live for pre-orders shortly, and many more will follow. Two additional cities are also in engineering and permitting, and three others are in the earlier stages. (For those in Sonoma County: yes, some of these are expansion here!)

I know you probably cannot divulge exactly which SF neighborhoods are coming up next, but do you have any information you could provide as to when we may expect an announcement for the ones you indicate are coming up soon?

Thanks!
Kyle

We are close to finalizing the construction schedule for our next SF neighborhood. We'll announce it as soon as we've got the dates set with reasonable certainty.

Dane,
Is Palo Alto in your fiber expansion plan? Any timeline? Thanks

Guest wrote:Dane,
Is Palo Alto in your fiber expansion plan? Any timeline? Thanks

A number of other cities are in the engineering process now, but for competitive reasons we are not announcing in advance of the ability to take orders for specific addresses and provide a concrete delivery time-frame. We learned our lesson on announcing too early in our other projects.