Fusion price increase and fiber expansion

Internet access discussion, including Fusion, IP Broadband, and Gigabit Fiber!
597 posts Page 14 of 60
by pockyken007 » Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:53 pm
While I do agree with your points and yes I am one of the lucky people who got their sonic fiber ( mind you I moved to the avenues without prior knowledge that sonic fiber will be deployed there - simply lucked out I guess ) I can also make an argument as to why with me already having fiber I should support sonic build out of more fiber with the increased price when I was promised a 40$ a month service ? While I see the price increase for people who are below 20-25 mbps as a slap in the face I also see it as a revenue addition to keep on the fiber ball rolling ... what I proposed before is for people who are getting 25 mbps + increase of 10$ makes sense or heck make fiber 60$ flat rate ( that is a 20$ increase and yes I am willing to pay that much for excellent product , still cheaper then ATT FTTN which ran me almost 100$+ a month for Bonded 50 mbps ) ...

Now when you get the attitude of why should I support the other guy ( and trust me I understand the pains of slow connection as before the move I was on 1.5 MBPS DSL ) that's when I draw the line ... We should all support each other and strive to make it so that the guy next door can also enjoy fiber ... I have no problem with it ( and no it's not because I already have fiber but rather I truly want the people to experience fast connections ) ... said that the way Sonic went about this increase leaves a lot to wish for and leaves up for speculation and debate ... could have they done it better ? absolutely so did they ? Absolutely not ... hopefully Dane will take the comments in here to heart and see that by doing what he did he will only alienate the customer base who has slower speeds and is not willing to pay extra 10$ for a sub-par product where alternatives exist ...
by Guest » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:10 pm
I just got my monthly statement through email and it's interesting. My parents' fiber account does not have the notice while my FTTN account has the $10 increase.
by Fred » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:58 pm
pockyken007 wrote: I hope all of you that are out because of this increase won't be coming back to Sonic when fiber is available in your neighborhood after all it would it would then be considered " fiber beneficiaries " paying for your fiber wouldn't it ? :lol: :lol: :roll: :roll:
Shortsighted?

We've been with Sonic for over a decade, because they used to have business practices unlike any other ISPs, including the local folks. Unfortunately, over the years, Dane seems to want to model some of the worst behaviors of both industry and government. I understand the business complexities of the fiber expansion, including technical, bureaucratic, marketing and pricing, but if "good will" and customer loyalty is to count for anything, I submit that Dane didn't think through the "optics" of this latest move.

The rate increase (fiber tax) should apply to ... customers who have fiber, not the DSL peasants left in the ditch at the side of the road.
by Guest » Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:51 pm
People have talked about Netflix price increases, as a similar example, and how they stuck with it anyway. Well, I dumped Netflix, and never looked back. I'd already dumped AT&T and Comcast before that.

But now I suspect that in the long run Sonic intends to follow even deeper the example of Netflix... for just as Netflix demolished their DVD biz, Sonic will free itself of all but the sexy Gb fiber, expanding that where it can, then cutting loose the areas (and old infrastructure) where it can't or won't expand it - once it has obtained enough additional financing from them with this increase (and so it's okay if those customers melt away over time anyway). I would guess they've determined they can do quite well for themselves after they transition to being a leaner Gb-fiber-only regional outfit, at an even higher but still competitive price point.

But I didn't sign on to be tapped for incremental venture capital Sonic apparently can't get elsewhere. I wonder where are the capital investors for their expansion plans; what do others see and/or know that we don't? Or perhaps there's capital, but conditioned upon this price hike. In any case, if this is being implemented so poorly in the "optics" some still believe to be uncharacteristic, then there has to be some other reason or strategy.
by dane » Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:45 pm
It shouldn't be a big surprise, but the number one request by Sonic members today is for faster service. We see this every day, in our annual customer satisfaction surveys, and in exit surveys for those who depart.

And this isn't anything new. When we started in 1994, service was delivered over incumbent phone lines at 16.8kbps, then 28.8kbps. As "56k" modem technologies arrived, we rapidly adopted them, deploying digital circuits and modems in our network. And as these technologies were deployed, pricing gradually increased, from $12/mo, to $15/mo, to $18.95. The speed of just under 56kbps was a limit of the telephone line technology.

As I'm talking about the early days, it might be worthwhile to revisit some of the milestones of the last 22 years. Here's a glimpse of some highlights of just a few of the things we've done:

Image

Then in 1998, we launched DSL service, using DSL lines which we purchased wholesale from the incumbent, at 1.5Mbps initially. This was T1 download speed, so it was pretty impressive. The service was initially $57.95, but over the years went down to as low as around $35, and now has climbed back up roughly to the initial level as membership quantities have decreased and costs have risen as a result. The speeds of 1.5Mbps to 6Mbps were limits of the technology, but also of the product design of our supplier, the incumbent telephone company.

Once we moved from being an ISP to a full-fledged carrier, in 2008 we launched ADSL2+, up to 20Mbps, then VDSL2 at up to 50Mbps or more. For the first time, we had raw copper lines as a carrier ourselves, at a uniform monthly cost, and we were free to deploy whatever technology would deliver the maximum speed. We rolled out Annex M technology for more upstream, PTM for lower overhead, and line bonding to offer double the speed. We also greatly expanded our reach, deploying Fusion equipment in central offices in 125 California cities in Northern and Southern California. With these products, the speed limits are created by the technology only - the physics of carrying capacity of a copper line over distance, but of course, subscribers want to go faster.

And because our members want more speed, and because central office loops can be long distances, we launched FTTN, back to a resale product leveraging the incumbent's equipment. In some ways a step backward, this product means less control over the deliver of the service, but in many locations, a higher performance product - so it's a good interim solution to fill the need for more performance.

For a snapshot of how Fusion has been improved by our team since launching in its current form in 2010, see our timeline:


Image


Our goal has been to deliver more and more value for Sonic members with Fusion service, and it stacks up pretty well!

But performance is critical, and the next stage for Sonic is to deliver fiber to our members. With our own fiber, we are able to finally deliver a virtually unlimited-speed product, an offering where the Internet access itself is actually faster than many of the devices on the local network in the home, delivering Gigabit Ethernet, and faster than WiFi!

We have been working toward the capabilities to deliver fiber for a long time, so I think it's worth sharing some insight into the process and our progress.

Being an ISP is pretty easy. Being a competitive telecommunications carrier is harder. But building new fiber networks is a hugely complex undertaking. We haven't talked a lot about the challenges, but you've certainly seen the results of them in the long delay between our early start in Sebastopol, and today, when we've really begun to deliver over a decent sized area.

Now, we've got that process refined and we are scaling it up. I think folks may not be aware of the change in fiber construction and deployment velocity that we have achieved over the last year, so I'll share that here. Here is an image of what that has looked like to date:


Image


As a private company, every improvement and every new technology, every new feature has been built using membership fees from our current members. Dialup members effectively paid for DSL technology, DSL members paid for CLEC deployment (and also, Northern California members paid for Southern California expansion!) That's how things work in a private company, with no outside investors, and until quite recently, no debt. (More on the debt part later.)

Now that we have proven the ability to deliver gigabit fiber service, and we are poised to scale it over a very large area, I don't think it is time to stop, to halt improving our services. Doing so would effectively set ourselves up to eventually cease as a business, as Fusion xDSL and FTTN technologies are supplanted by faster options in the never-ending quest for increasing speed.

In regards to debt, I should address this point specifically, because it ties in to the reason for a price increase from $40 to $50 for Fusion service. Clearly, we've built a pretty sizable fiber network already, and I am pleased to say that today we serve out of of ten Sonic members with a gigabit fiber connection right now. But we will soon reach the end of our ability to borrow funds to build more fiber, because our debt is tied to the limits of our current revenue. Like any other loan, the size of the debt is limited by the ability to pay it off, and without substantially more debt capital, we cannot built more fiber.

So we could stop, but doing so would give up on the mission our whole company and team is focused on: to build a faster, friendlier, more private and better Internet connection for Sonic members, an alternative to duopoly cable/telco, an unlimited service, and a compelling value. Fast access to the Internet shouldn't just be available from the cable company - you deserve a better alternative.

I do hope that you will take an interest in our mission, and I hope that you will help us achieve it by being a Member of Sonic.
Dane Jasper
Sonic
by PresidioJammer » Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:53 pm
I live in the Presidio where infrastructure is crumbling and the only options are Sonic, AT&T, and Comcast. I chose Sonic as I think that your product is best and your service does get better with time. I am not disappointed so much with the price increase. While it is certainly more expensive than I would like, I understand that new expansion must be funded. What I hope to learn is whether the tiny footprint of residences here might ever get fiber. What kinds of expansion is planned in the next few years? Is dealing with the federal government much more challenging, expensive, time consuming than SF? Is there anything that I can do to entice a serious conversation?
by [email protected] » Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:52 am
Dane,

I truly do appreciate the time you have taken and continue to take to respond in this forum. I'd like to ask you some questions based on what you just posted. I don't presume that you'd remember my previous post, but I've been continuing to pay for Sonic service for the past year and change despite my roommate signing us up with Comcast. Even though I don't directly benefit from the service anymore, I felt it was worth my money to support your company both for its values and for the possibility of better internet for my neighbors and myself here in San Francisco. Background out of the way, here are my questions:

1. While I appreciate the milestones of the last 22 years, a lot of that has less to do with your company than it does with changes in technology (I started using the internet with a 300-baud modem, as a matter of context). I've been with Sonic since late 2011. What performance increases should I have received in the past five years? If I should have received some, why haven't I? If the answer is "none", as my distance to the CO has my best speed at 4 mb/s, then how have you succeeded in your stated goal (in respect to me) " to deliver more and more value... with Fusion service"?

2. You produce a nice graph illustrating Fusion Fiber Construction over the last three years, but you fail to note what the Y-axis denotes or its scale. Could you please clarify?

3. You mention that you have not had any debt until quite recently, and you imply that you have taken on the limit of your current borrowing power. Is that accurate, and if so, will a $10 increase from existing customers be sufficient to service your debt and provide for capital expansion, especially in light of the continued advertisement of the current (lower) price point? (And no, I don't expect a private company to post its finances in a forum, but I would like reassurance that if I stay on board, I won't be throwing my money away.)

4. Finally, for so critical an issue as this, why has there been no general announcement apart from the forums, and nothing more than a message in the middle of an emailed invoice (without so much as a heads-up in the subject line)? For a company that prides itself on its ethics, this practice certainly seems out-of-line.

I hope you understand that I truly hope there are good things in store for Sonic, and I have not made my final decision to leave (else I wouldn't be posting here). Thank you for your time.
by jakeibel » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:52 am
For those of us just wanting basic, everyday Internet access (e.g., read emails and catch up on a missed episode of NCIS), an increase isn't of interest. We don't need or want super speed. Can't you provide a basic, no-frills option and hold the price down?
by Loophole » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:10 am
Thanks for correcting me pockeyken007. Of course i meant 4.04 mbps not gigs.
I wouldnt be complaining if i got 4.04 gigs

But a $10 a month increase to$100 a month ( plus fees) for 4.04 mbps is the straw that broke the camel's back.
As much as I want to support Sonic and dislike the idea of having to deal with Comcast- this increase without even a hint that Sonic will be able to provide me with faster internet service anytime in the foreseeable future gives me no choice. Rather than increasing rates for all users, Sonic should consider giving reduced rates to those of us who want to support Sonic and have stayed with them despite the slow internet, even though we know we could have received faster internet at a lower price elsewhere.
by oddhack » Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:10 pm
Loophole wrote:Rather than increasing rates for all users, Sonic should consider giving reduced rates to those of us who want to support Sonic and have stayed with them despite the slow internet, even though we know we could have received faster internet at a lower price elsewhere.
Buried in Dane's posted was the statement that Sonic was losing customers and having to raise prices to make up for it. That sounds a great deal like a death spiral to me.
597 posts Page 14 of 60