10Gbps Availability Makes No Sense

Internet access discussion, including Fusion, IP Broadband, and Gigabit Fiber!
24 posts Page 2 of 3
by artakamoose » Mon Jun 24, 2024 4:25 pm
Dane is correct. Everyone on fiber (1G or 10G) is paying the same for the same level of service. If you have 1G or 10G with a phone line, you're paying the same base rate (taxes may be slightly different in different areas). 10G is the only service that lets you drop the phone line. 1G service still requires it. I'm not sure why that is, but Sonic isn't changing that for some reason.

So here's what it boils down to:
- If you have 1G service and need the phone line, there's very little reason to change.
- If you have 1G service, don't need the phone line anymore, and can upgrade to 10G; then it's a good idea.

And if you think all of this is too expense, then you should price out 1G FTTH service with AT&T or that joke that Comcast calls 1G. Hint: Sonic's service is much cheaper.
by rcko726lake » Mon Jun 24, 2024 4:46 pm
In terms of the paying it forward, uh, no.

First, I pay a lot more now for my 1Gbp service than I did when I signed up. And, as people pointed out, there was no notice. I found out when I looked at my credit card bill. Sonic used to be the only alternative to the monopolies. But now we have wireless home internet services and Comcast has gotten religion with its Connect Now offering. You now have to kind of twist yourself into a pretzel to say that Sonic's 1 Gbps service is competitive.

Second, the 10 Gbps service, which is super-competitive, is cheaper because you can drop the phone service - which at this point even my 90-something parents have dropped.

Third, Sonic is a real business. To not differentiate pricing based on level of service is either parsimonious, lazy or ideological. It's always been ridiculous, and is getting more so.
by oddhack » Mon Jun 24, 2024 6:15 pm
artakamoose wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 4:25 pmAnd if you think all of this is too expense, then you should price out 1G FTTH service with AT&T or that joke that Comcast calls 1G. Hint: Sonic's service is much cheaper.
I'm paying $55.28/mo for AT&T gigabit fiber, inclusive. Less the $350 in up-front discounts. No quotas, no contracts. It would be nice to have the option to move back to Sonic for something other than email, someday. But I have lost hope they'll actually deploy in my part of Hayward after so many years of monthly mailers promising Real Soon Now.
by artakamoose » Mon Jun 24, 2024 6:50 pm
rcko726lake wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 4:46 pm In terms of the paying it forward, uh, no.

First, I pay a lot more now for my 1Gbp service than I did when I signed up. And, as people pointed out, there was no notice. I found out when I looked at my credit card bill. Sonic used to be the only alternative to the monopolies. But now we have wireless home internet services and Comcast has gotten religion with its Connect Now offering. You now have to kind of twist yourself into a pretzel to say that Sonic's 1 Gbps service is competitive.

Second, the 10 Gbps service, which is super-competitive, is cheaper because you can drop the phone service - which at this point even my 90-something parents have dropped.

Third, Sonic is a real business. To not differentiate pricing based on level of service is either parsimonious, lazy or ideological. It's always been ridiculous, and is getting more so.
I won't defend how they handled the price increase, but the fact remains that phone plus internet is $59.99 + taxes no matter if you're 1G or 10G, and internet only is $49.99 with no taxes. Your rhetoric aside, their pricing actually makes a ton on sense. There's zero reason for them to offer speed tiers, especially when the other providers tiers are generally more expensive than Sonic's basic tier.
oddhack wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 6:15 pm I'm paying $55.28/mo for AT&T gigabit fiber, inclusive. Less the $350 in up-front discounts. No quotas, no contracts. It would be nice to have the option to move back to Sonic for something other than email, someday. But I have lost hope they'll actually deploy in my part of Hayward after so many years of monthly mailers promising Real Soon Now.
I'm very aware or AT&T's pricing. I had their FTTH service for years before Sonic was available and follow this space closely. I had a lifetime $70/mo rate with AT&T. The current rate is actually $80/mo. Your rate is a promo rate that they rolled out to compete with Sonic in the Bay Area because they're getting their butts handed to them. When Sonic rolled out in my neighborhood (which is served by AT&T Fiber), we saw multiple Sonic trucks per day for months doing installs. AT&T is getting killed where Sonic has service. AT&T customers in other parts of the country without competition are paying $80/mo. I truly feel for you in Hayward, but that's not Sonic's fault. If you follow the broadband world, they're actually doing an amazing job rolling out service across the Bay Area and doing so relatively quickly. Working with local governments is hard sometimes though, and we're seeing that in the areas where their rollouts are getting delayed.
by oddhack » Mon Jun 24, 2024 7:19 pm
artakamoose wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 6:50 pmI'm very aware or AT&T's pricing. I had their FTTH service for years before Sonic was available and follow this space closely. I had a lifetime $70/mo rate with AT&T. The current rate is actually $80/mo. Your rate is a promo rate that they rolled out to compete with Sonic in the Bay Area because they're getting their butts handed to them. When Sonic rolled out in my neighborhood (which is served by AT&T Fiber), we saw multiple Sonic trucks per day for months doing installs. AT&T is getting killed where Sonic has service. AT&T customers in other parts of the country without competition are paying $80/mo.
It's irrelevant to cite AT&T's pricing in other parts of the country and compare it to what people pay where Sonic operates. In any event AT&T's only actual competition in my part of the SFBA is Xfinity, and they are both perfectly capable of modifying pricing at granularity down to the individual address if they feel like it. So if anyone gets "competition" credit for my AT&T bill ATM it's Xfinity (which is the only thing I'd ever give them credit for).

I don't know what insight into Sonic's financials you have to say "AT&T is getting their butts handed to them". Maybe they are, but if so I'd hope for a lot more aggressive rollout of fiber than Sonic appears able to actually fund.

None of this is about "fault". Sonic can do what it wants. What it has chosen to do, from my perspective, is to keep telling people, for years on end, to sign up for service that will be available Real Soon Now but not actually provide that service. By contrast AT&T just dropped a single flyer when they actually had fiber in my neighborhood and I had it running inside 2 weeks. This has gone a long way towards altering what was once an unalloyed positive view of Sonic, together with the game they played of "Oh, it's $40 per month... plus an unavoidable telephone charge ... plus phone taxes and fees... but we'll hide that in the fine print just like megacorps do". I'd still take them over a megacorp given the choice, but the difference is a lot less than is used to be.
by artakamoose » Mon Jun 24, 2024 10:53 pm
Technically, I never compared your pricing from AT&T's to Sonic's. As you mentioned, it's a moot point since you can't get service yet. I was discussing pricing with rcko726lake.

With that said, AT&T's pricing for 1G fiber nationwide is $80/mo. The only place I've read about where they offer a discount is in the Bay Area. Check the DSLReports AT&T Uverse forum if you don't believe me. With that said, they do offer a discount if you have mobile service with AT&T also. The fact that they only offer a discount here should tell you enough about what Sonic service is doing to their uptake here.

Don't get me started on AT&T fiber rollout either. It's been spotty at best. When Sonic hit my neighborhood in Oakland, they rolled out service across the entire neighborhood. AT&T had them beat by several years; but my neighbors can't get it and several streets in our neighborhood don't have it at all. This is AT&T we're talking about, they have access to billions of dollars in funding to roll out service. Sonic is tiny compared to them and they've hit more locations in the Bay Area in the last couple of years than AT&T has in over twice that amount of time.

Look, I know it sucks to get a flyer and then have to wait. I'm not excusing that; but what they're doing is almost miraculous for a tiny company. They're basically building a whole new network from scratch and covering huge swaths of the Bay Area. It's much easier for AT&T and Comcast to do what they're doing (relatively speaking of course).

And then there's the fact that Sonic gives you a simple ONT with ethernet handoff. Don't get me started on AT&T's awful gateways. They introduced a bug not once, but twice on the old 5268 which limited their pseudo passthrough to 50M service. One of those instances lasted for over 8 months. Nothing like paying for 1G service and only getting 50M.
by bbjohnson » Tue Jun 25, 2024 1:45 pm
chrisfocht wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2024 10:11 am So I've been a fusion fiber customer with Sonic for many years. They have rolled out 10 GB in my neighborhood, which I was very excited about. I called to upgrade and have been informed it's available...for a one time $300 fee. Yet my neighbor across the street can sign up today, pay no additional fee and receive the same 10GB internet. Why is Sonic punishing loyal customers?
I was told by the install tech yesterday (June 24, 2024) during my 1 Gbit install that there is no upgrade fee for 10 Gbit. He even called an "expert" who also confirmed there is NO FEE to upgrade to 10 Gbit. Obviously, as of June 25, 2024, there is a $299 fee to upgrade. Why is this information not available to the installation team?
by virtualmike » Tue Jun 25, 2024 3:37 pm
artakamoose wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 10:53 pm Look, I know it sucks to get a flyer and then have to wait. I'm not excusing that; but what they're doing is almost miraculous for a tiny company. They're basically building a whole new network from scratch and covering huge swaths of the Bay Area. It's much easier for AT&T and Comcast to do what they're doing (relatively speaking of course).
It's essentially the same as when cable TV rolled out in the 1970s-1980s (and beyond, in some areas). Back then, there were thousands of cable companies servicing smaller regions, and they had to deal with the same challenges that Sonic is handling today. Power and phone companies didn't want to let them use the poles. Cities, towns, and counties threw roadblocks via the permitting process. Some neighbors objected to the additional wires "cluttering the airspace," while others were annoyed by the trucks and installers. But the companies persevered and managed to connect cable service to a majority of the homes in the neighborhoods, unless the residents refused to be connected.

Today, Comcast and AT&T (and their peers) are huge behemoths (having bought most of the small companies that originally built out the networks) and they cherry pick where they offer or upgrade their services, and fight to drop areas where they feel their ROI is lower. AT&T is using every tactic it can to get out of its obligation to provide landline phone service, and Comcast charges exorbitant fees to connect a home that hasn't yet had coax installed.

I have sympathy for people who have substandard Internet access, but it's just frigging amazing what Sonic has done in the past 15 years.
by virtualmike » Tue Jun 25, 2024 3:39 pm
bbjohnson wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 1:45 pm I was told by the install tech yesterday (June 24, 2024) during my 1 Gbit install ...
That's odd, because everything posted here by Sonic staff states that all installations are 10GB. Perhaps call Support to get the true story?
by jerrielm » Tue Jun 25, 2024 4:31 pm
bbjohnson wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 1:45 pm
chrisfocht wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2024 10:11 am So I've been a fusion fiber customer with Sonic for many years. They have rolled out 10 GB in my neighborhood, which I was very excited about. I called to upgrade and have been informed it's available...for a one time $300 fee. Yet my neighbor across the street can sign up today, pay no additional fee and receive the same 10GB internet. Why is Sonic punishing loyal customers?
I was told by the install tech yesterday (June 24, 2024) during my 1 Gbit install that there is no upgrade fee for 10 Gbit. He even called an "expert" who also confirmed there is NO FEE to upgrade to 10 Gbit. Obviously, as of June 25, 2024, there is a $299 fee to upgrade. Why is this information not available to the installation team?
Hello!

Sadly, we do have an upgrade fee for our 10 gig. Currently, its just for sign up and the service is not "live". All of this information is there for our installer team. I am not sure where the confusion came from. Sorry about that.

Best Wishes!
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