Sonic Fiber vs AT&T Fiber offering....

[lasevich]

I've been patiently(well...) waiting for Sonic to roll out their fiber into my neighborhood (Temescal, Oakland) for some time now. But suddenly I notice a new option popped up a few months ago - Sonic over AT&T fiber. Having had Sonic over AT&T service in the past, I am understandably reluctant to do this (AT&T is no Comcast, but I still have yet to have one decent experience with them), but I am curious if this new offering means that Sonic is not planning to roll out their own service into the neighborhood for a while (or ever)?

I am also curious as to how this setup works in practice. In the past for me, Sonic service over AT&T still yielded a Sonic-owned IP address to my house, with Sonic managing the IP layer/routing/etc of the network and AT&T just (mis)managing the wiring and hardware - but I recall hearing about some setups in SF that had a 3rd party managing the IP layer as well, and Sonic is essentially just being a billing reseller. Does anyone know specifically what is the setup for this offering?

If it is the same as the SF offering (i.e. AT&T controlling my data) - what is the advantage of going via Sonic? I do recall that there was a VPN service Sonic setup for those customers in SF - but I am a bit concerned about reliability and throughput of that, especially at the high speed being advertised. Are there (affordable and reliable) hardware devices that will make the VPN permanent that can sustain the throughput anywhere close to the gigabit speeds?

Thanks,

[dane]

Yes, as you surmise, this is a resale offering. Sonic purchases bulk access - which brings some advantages, including no usage-based billing or caps on usage. Beyond that, the other primary advantage is the ability to work with Sonic, as opposed to having to deal with AT&T yourself. Finally, it supports Sonic's efforts as we continue to deploy, both financially and as we work to build a critical mass of members in every region.

[lasevich]

Yes, as you surmise, this is a resale offering. Sonic purchases bulk access - which brings some advantages, including no usage-based billing or caps on usage. Beyond that, the other primary advantage is the ability to work with Sonic, as opposed to having to deal with AT&T yourself. Finally, it supports Sonic's efforts as we continue to deploy, both financially and as we work to build a critical mass of members in every region.

*sigh* I was afraid of that. I do have to say, having dealt with AT&T in the past, having to deal with Sonic crew instead of them does sound highly appealing. I realize it is not going to get anything done any faster, but at least it will be a Sonic employee tearing their hair out dealing with AT&T instead of me... (great, now I feel guilty about it)

So, any comments on the VPN aspect of this?

-M

[jessieandrob]

Yes, as you surmise, this is a resale offering. Sonic purchases bulk access - which brings some advantages, including no usage-based billing or caps on usage. Beyond that, the other primary advantage is the ability to work with Sonic, as opposed to having to deal with AT&T yourself. Finally, it supports Sonic's efforts as we continue to deploy, both financially and as we work to build a critical mass of members in every region.

*sigh* I was afraid of that. I do have to say, having dealt with AT&T in the past, having to deal with Sonic crew instead of them does sound highly appealing. I realize it is not going to get anything done any faster, but at least it will be a Sonic employee tearing their hair out dealing with AT&T instead of me... (great, now I feel guilty about it)

So, any comments on the VPN aspect of this?

-M

i'd actually like to know this too. we're on the resold AT&T fiber through Sonic, and while everything is working great, it looks like IPv6 doesn't work over Sonic's VPN. IPv4 seems to work ok, but with most websites moving to IPv6 it would be nice to have updated coverage...

[dane]

Yep, our VPN doesn't support IPv6 at this time, and yes, it'd result in a significant speed decrease. I also haven't seen any reports of successful implementation of a whole-home always-on VPN solution, for example using a gateway that keeps the VPN up and serves the household behind it. A really intelligent version of this would not send some traffic over VPN, for example streaming video from commercial services maybe goes direct, while browsing would be via VPN.

Instead, folks primarily use the VPN from PC clients, which I suppose achieves some of that - the Roku doesn't VPN, while the browsing PC does.

Has anyone set up a whole-home LAN VPN solution that connects to our VPN server or a commercial VPN service?

[lasevich]

Yep, our VPN doesn't support IPv6 at this time, and yes, it'd result in a significant speed decrease. I also haven't seen any reports of successful implementation of a whole-home always-on VPN solution, for example using a gateway that keeps the VPN up and serves the household behind it. A really intelligent version of this would not send some traffic over VPN, for example streaming video from commercial services maybe goes direct, while browsing would be via VPN.

I have done this sort of a thing in a commercial setting in the past (connecting whole offices and such), but that was long time ago, when 50Mbps was "high speed" and required some pretty expensive equipment. It also required time to monitor and maintain such setups, which is not a stellar thing in a home setup. I started looking for some modern "SOHO" devices, and there are some in the space, but most are much slower than the GB speed. To be honest, I am not so sold I actually need all that speed, esp if I can send most of the common streaming outside the VPN (at least until AT&T decides to throttle Youtube or Netflix again) So far the winner seems to be a SonicWall device that claims 900 Mbps throughput for IPSec VPN...

Of course, the question is - will the Sonic's end support this sort of a throughput... it feels like it may be bordering on abuse of service, if it is even supported...

As for splitting traffic, it am guessing it would be non-trivial to do so automatically, though I suppose you can always run a dual network in the house. But that would be annoying to not have streaming devices on same network as mobiles, for casting and such...

If anyone have done this, please chime in with your experience

Thanks,

-M

[timyu94]

Yep, our VPN doesn't support IPv6 at this time, and yes, it'd result in a significant speed decrease. I also haven't seen any reports of successful implementation of a whole-home always-on VPN solution, for example using a gateway that keeps the VPN up and serves the household behind it. A really intelligent version of this would not send some traffic over VPN, for example streaming video from commercial services maybe goes direct, while browsing would be via VPN.

Instead, folks primarily use the VPN from PC clients, which I suppose achieves some of that - the Roku doesn't VPN, while the browsing PC does.

Has anyone set up a whole-home LAN VPN solution that connects to our VPN server or a commercial VPN service?

Yep.

Built a Pfsense router on a $190 i3-5015u Chinese qotom mini pc over the summer for Sonic OVPN over ATT internet 75.

Before that I used an Asus AC68U's ovpn client but it's cpu was not keeping up anymore (20-30 mbps) hence the aforementioned Pfsense built.

I used ExpressVPN's setup instruction but had to modify it for a few sonic peculiarities and it's working fine now.

All devices are connected through the VPN gateway to sonic and none touch the ATT ip space.

Configuration

Att Bgw210-700 - - > Pfsense qotom build - - > INTEL Nic #1 to 8 port netgear unmanaged switch to various devices (unifi ac lite / pcs/ printers) - - -> intel mic #2 to sonic VOIP ATA in a separate Subnet

[lasevich]

BTW, it is worth noting that none of this would matter if Sonic service is coming to our neighborhood in a reasonable timeframe - any chance of that?

[dane]

BTW, it is worth noting that none of this would matter if Sonic service is coming to our neighborhood in a reasonable timeframe - any chance of that?

The answer here is the same everywhere: we are expanding more and more rapidly, and that expansion is driven by the success and uptake of both fiber and Fusion services. So, please stick with us and please spread the word, that is everyone's best hope of us achieving our mission of connecting everyone with our own fast fiber service!

[modemrental]

It also looks like the Sonic offering included the ONT/ATA in the price, where as the twice as expensive ATT offering requires rental of both a fiber modem AND an ATA which customer support says can't be removed adding an additional $16/month in hidden fees.