Fusion IP Broadband (FTTN) X2 over single pair?

[mykmelez]

My wife called Sonic yesterday to inquire about upgrading her service in Sunnyvale from Fusion IP Broadband X1 to X2, and the customer service rep told her it would require a bonded pair and a truck roll.

This confused me, as the AT&T techs who originally installed the X1 service (and troubleshot some issues with it) a few years ago told us that her link to the VRAD is clean enough and short enough to support 50Mbps on the existing single pair, and that they will provide that speed tier on a single pair when it's possible to do so.

I suppose her link could've deteriorated since then. And maybe a tech visit is necessary because of a limitation of the upgrade process, or because AT&T requires the modem to be upgraded or reconfigured.

But that's not what the rep said. He told us that X2 *requires* a bonded pair and cannot be delivered over a single pair. Which is the opposite of what the AT&T techs told us. And I could've sworn I've seen other customers in these forums report getting X2 over a single pair.

Do I misremember, have things changed since the service was originally installed, or was the Sonic rep mistaken yesterday? And if it's possible to get X2 over a single pair, then is it also possible to do so without a truck roll, if one already has X1; or does the modem need to be upgraded/reconfigured regardless?

[timyu94]

You're upgrading from X1 to.. 45 or 75?

75+ is mandatory bonded pair on very specific line cards that's supports the 17mhz profile.

The 45 tier varies but depending on what line card you have for the 18 they'll need to swap you over to a 17mhz card which may or may not require bonding and a new RG (typically BGW210) from whatever you had before.

Basically its at the discretion of the line tech that arrives on the day of installation. For 45 tier they put you on a. 55/60M line profile which a single line must exceed by quite a bit or they go to bonding. Likewise for 75 tier it's the 90M profile.

[drew.phillips]

Tim hit it spot on. If they run a second pair, this will require an AT&T tech install. We won't know until we submit the upgrade, and someone here will reach out to you with the AT&T install date and time. You can reschedule if that doesn't work. That said, there are some cases in which X2 at 50M is delivered over a single pair.

Given that she will likely be eligible for a 75 Mbps upgrade, expect that AT&T will want to run a second pair and that an install will be required.

[mykmelez]

She would be upgrading to the 50 tier, not the 75, as the 50 ("Fusion IP Broadband X2 50 Mbps") is the only one shown as available in her Member Tools > Internet Connections > Upgrade or Downgrade Service.

An additional consideration is that AT&T has been running fiber in the neighborhood (according to threads on Nextdoor). It hasn't reached her house, but presumably it will do so in the foreseeable future. And I know from other threads in these forums that Sonic can now resell that service.

Thus I'm reluctant to commit her to a year of FTTN (and make Sonic/AT&T run a second pair) at this point. However, I would happily upgrade her FTTN service if it was possible to do so using her existing modem and single pair, i.e. without a truck roll and a new one-year commitment.

It sounds like that isn't possible, however; or at least it isn't possible to know whether a new pair is required without submitting the order (and perhaps it would require a new one-year commitment regardless).

[drew.phillips]

If 50M is the only option and the modem DSL info page shows things are synced up at much higher rates, there's a good chance AT&T will do the upgrade in place and not require a tech visit. It will likely need to be synced at 75 Mbps or higher for them to consider it, and particularly the upload ought to have a max sync rate of 12 or higher.

If they do require an install, you can always request that we cancel the change request to leave things as is. If you do the upgrade now, and AT&T fiber to the home becomes available there in less than a year, there's no penalty with the existing one year commitment to upgrade to fiber.

Lastly, even if the X2 upgrade can be done without a tech visit and 2nd pair, it still results in a new one year contract.

[mykmelez]

Thanks, Drew (and timyu94) for your insights!

It looks like the (Pace 5031NV) modem is synced at a "Max User Rate" of "59618 kbs" down and "2036 kbs" up, which sounds like it isn't quite enough to support the 50 Mbps tier without a second pair.

Nevertheless, we'll try upgrading and see what AT&T says (and perhaps complete the upgrade even if they do require a second pair, since it isn't clear exactly when their fiber rollout will reach this part of Sunnyvale).

[timyu94]

Thanks, Drew (and timyu94) for your insights!

It looks like the (Pace 5031NV) modem is synced at a "Max User Rate" of "59618 kbs" down and "2036 kbs" up, which sounds like it isn't quite enough to support the 50 Mbps tier without a second pair.

Nevertheless, we'll try upgrading and see what AT&T says (and perhaps complete the upgrade even if they do require a second pair, since it isn't clear exactly when their fiber rollout will reach this part of Sunnyvale).

With that upload and tier (60M) it sounds like you're on an older line card which will need to get swapped to another. A new line card and whatever line sync rates it gets can be outrageously good enough that a single line would work or not but the ATT tech would make the decision then and there.

So either way they'll need to send an installer to at least wire you to a new line card that supports higher UL and pair bonding if needed plus a dual band RG (BGW210).

[mykmelez]

To close the loop on this, AT&T did indeed roll a truck to bond a second pair, and they replaced the modem with an Arris NVG589. We're now up and running on the faster connection, which is working great.