Fusion price increase and fiber expansion

[foaxzilch]

I'm a longtime Sonic customer and have been happy with the customer service. Previously had ATT and hated to have to jump through hoops to get help.

Currently paying about $56/mo for legacy DSL (rebundled ATT) and Sonic VOIP. Essentially I have ATT DSL and equipment with a Sonic phone modem and pay rentals for both modems.

FTTN and Fusion are not available at my address. My speed is about 5Mbps. I have thought it unfair to pay as much for this service as I would pay Sonic for its faster connections but hoped that faster speeds might be forthcoming. A price increase for 5Mbps is ridiculous. I may be forced to go over to the dark side. I would be willing to pay the increase for FTTN or faster but not for legacy DSL.

ATT offers the same service for $30/month first year then $40/mo. Comcast offers 25Mbps for $40/mo for 12 months then goes to $60/mo. I don't want to pay for R&D but for an internet connection.

[virtualmike]

How often do other ISP's increase prices with no meaningful service increases anyway? I don't think I've ever seen that. This is the IT industry which is an area where advancing technology normally makes costs lower rather than higher.

I've seen it multiple times, with both Comcast and AT&T. I've heard plenty of anecdotal tales from people I believe are telling the truth, about the other large carriers (Time Warner, Charter, Verizon [landside ops], and Qwest).

As Dane noted, in some instances, one can call and get a CSR who is authorized to provide a lower price in the name of customer retention, but with the other carriers, the number of people who call is a small minority, so the price increase is a significant boost to revenue.

[phr]

I have no issue with 10$ increase if it brings fiber to those who don't have it yet , as one of the lucky people who happen to live on the avenues in SF ( with an active fiber connection ) I have no problem supporting your efforts to bring fiber to the rest of the customer base . While price increases are never a nice thing I can see what you are doing Dane and even though above posters mentioned valid points ,I don't see it as increase but more so as an investment ( long term but investment nevertheless ) in a company that so far delivers on their promises ( too you guys longer then anticipated but you did it ) . Keep up the good work Sonic .

You know, I agree with this, I'm a San Francisco liberal so if I had fiber myself, I wouldn't mind paying the $10 extra to help bring it to those underprivileged users who only have DSL. Or heck, free wi-fi for the homeless? Sure, take my money, we'll have a big party! But that's not what's happening here, I'm a DSL user being asked to subsidize fiber users rather than the other way around. So it's Robin Hood in reverse.

I liked the comparison further up with an involutary crowdfunding appeal with no rewards, or the valid observation that this type of capex is normally borne by investors who expect to get a profit from it. I don't even mind an "idealism tax" except I'm already paying one (7 mbps Sonic instead of 25 mbps Comcast) and now I'm being asked to pay another one, which is too many. Someone even said the cost of fiber was lowered from $70 to $40 (same as Fusion) so that really means the cost was simply shifted to Fusion users. I'd be happy to pay $70 right now for fiber if I could get it, fwiw. But right now I'm constantly aware of getting speed universally considered substandard, and suddenly that's going to cost more? Apparently anything under 25mbps doesn't even qualify as broadband these days (article).

I don't know what I'll do about this. I want to stay away from Comcast, but ditching internet altogether and getting outside more would be healthier than being online all the time, so maybe I should take the opportunity. (I can check email using wifi at the library a few times a week, or break down and get mobile internet). Anyway it's disappointing. I hope it can be re-thought.

[Guest]

Sonic is in a tough spot. They are a medium size private company that can't raise extra money through stock. Money needs to come from us.

DSL is going to die sooner rather than later: ultimately AT&T is going to find a way to get out of the POTS business and solely focus on wireless. When the phone lines die, so does DSL, and those of us without fiber or FTTN will be stuck with either Comcast or expensive LTE.

Sonic needs to expand quickly and have a large base of Fiber customers to help further expansion. If they don't, Sonic dies or becomes very niche (can't afford expansion). A price increase is needed.

I've always gotten the sense Dane is in it for the long haul and wants to be an internet provider that remains private and offers a great product to customers. No data caps, strong privacy protections, no need to call into the retention department to get a reduced rate.

So I stay with Sonic because it's a future investment; a hedge against a future cable monopoly, higher prices, data caps, loss of net neutrality, horrible customer service, etc. These are important things. They matter to me.

But many people aren't as idealistic, especially those with low speeds far from the central office, who don't have a connection fast enough to cut the cord and save money that way. I use the phone line service and should be ready to cut the cord soon, so luckily sonic remains a good value to me even with the fee increase. I can't use the dish bundle because of line of sight, so it would be cool if sonic could team up with a streaming service.

I wish Dane would post more blogs and information about the expansion to show that the idealism fee will soon pay off for more of us.

[danielg4]

Sonic needs to expand quickly and have a large base of Fiber customers to help further expansion. If they don't, Sonic dies or becomes very niche (can't afford expansion). A price increase is needed.

I don't disagree, but it makes sense to apply an increase to some things and not to others. Increases on ADSL are not fair to anyone. On the other hand, Gigabit Fiber would still be competitive at twice the increase.

But many people aren't as idealistic, especially those with low speeds far from the central office, who don't have a connection fast enough to cut the cord and save money that way. I use the phone line service and should be ready to cut the cord soon, so luckily sonic remains a good value to me even with the fee increase. I can't use the dish bundle because of line of sight, so it would be cool if sonic could team up with a streaming service.

AFAICT, Dish owns Sling TV, which dane has repeatedly recommended people look at, but IMHO a multicast solution on Sonic's network would be much more elegant, dead as the idea is.

[justme]

I think that Dane could score a HUGE loyalty vote by coming out with something like:

"We hear you. The point that many have made about legacy DSL and legacy Fusion subscribers having to subsidize our expansion, even though we quite possibly won't benefit from it for months or years, is understandable. So, we're changing our policy to implement the $10 price increase only for those who have fiber-based connections, including Gigibyte FTTH and FTTN. While we may not get as much "expansion capital" up front, we'll be even more motivated to get more users onto fiber, more quickly!"

I myself have FTTN, and am more than happy to pay an additional $10 for the 10X increase over my previous 2 mbps.

[foaxzilch]

I agree with justme. I'd have no issue with a price increase for a fiber or FTTN connection. But charging FTTN rates for a copper wire connection makes no sense. Someone earlier referred to this as reverse Robin Hood. I don't know how many folks will change ISP because of this increase but as a legacy DSL customer I'd give the dreaded Comcast a try.

[danielg4]

Well, it's still fair for VDSL Fusion to get the increase, just not ADSL Fusion. "Legacy DSL" service (non-Fusion) is something Sonic won't even provision anymore, so nothing could really be fair for that now. Dialup-only service is still offered, though, which I forgot about. However, Gigabit Fiber can easily take an increase of more than $10 to make up for what is lost from not increasing ADSL.

Personally, I didn't wait, and ordered a downgrade of the FTTN to X1 yesterday. It still hasn't taken effect yet as I type this. If X1 turns out not to be enough, and ADSL Fusion still gets an increase, Comcast it is.

[pockyken007]

I have no issue with 10$ increase if it brings fiber to those who don't have it yet , as one of the lucky people who happen to live on the avenues in SF ( with an active fiber connection ) I have no problem supporting your efforts to bring fiber to the rest of the customer base . While price increases are never a nice thing I can see what you are doing Dane and even though above posters mentioned valid points ,I don't see it as increase but more so as an investment ( long term but investment nevertheless ) in a company that so far delivers on their promises ( too you guys longer then anticipated but you did it ) . Keep up the good work Sonic .

You know, I agree with this, I'm a San Francisco liberal so if I had fiber myself, I wouldn't mind paying the $10 extra to help bring it to those underprivileged users who only have DSL. Or heck, free wi-fi for the homeless? Sure, take my money, we'll have a big party! But that's not what's happening here, I'm a DSL user being asked to subsidize fiber users rather than the other way around. So it's Robin Hood in reverse.

I liked the comparison further up with an involutary crowdfunding appeal with no rewards, or the valid observation that this type of capex is normally borne by investors who expect to get a profit from it. I don't even mind an "idealism tax" except I'm already paying one (7 mbps Sonic instead of 25 mbps Comcast) and now I'm being asked to pay another one, which is too many. Someone even said the cost of fiber was lowered from $70 to $40 (same as Fusion) so that really means the cost was simply shifted to Fusion users. I'd be happy to pay $70 right now for fiber if I could get it, fwiw. But right now I'm constantly aware of getting speed universally considered substandard, and suddenly that's going to cost more? Apparently anything under 25mbps doesn't even qualify as broadband these days (article).

I don't know what I'll do about this. I want to stay away from Comcast, but ditching internet altogether and getting outside more would be healthier than being online all the time, so maybe I should take the opportunity. (I can check email using wifi at the library a few times a week, or break down and get mobile internet). Anyway it's disappointing. I hope it can be re-thought.

Nice try but I am not liberal by any means as a matter of fact I am conservative as F.... and happen to live in San Francisco on the avenues that were lucky enough to get fiber. An increase of 10$ for me won't make a difference and if it allows to bring fiber to the rest of the user base then I am more than happy to support that. As some people mentioned increasing legacy connections is plainly dumb ... you can't expect people to pay top prices for low speeds in 2017 ... increasing the cost of fiber by 10$ seems more like a reasonable solution especially since the product is " hot " and the cost still beats competitors ... said that regardless of what you decide Sonic / Dane I hope you will take these concerns under consideration .

[Gabriel]

In 25 years of using the internet, the quality of the service I get has improved many times. Usually, I've paid nothing extra for the improved service. Sometimes, the price has actually gone down. Occasionally, the price for the improved service has gone up.

Only once has an ISP ever raised the price of service on me without also improving the quality of the service: that was in 2011, when AT&T increased the price of my DSL. The result? I switched to Sonic.

It is certainly disappointing to only see this price increase announced in a note in the bill. At the very least, I'd expect a paper mailing sent out to announce a 25% spike in the rates. It is also very disappointing to have no idea whether and when I will ever have the option to upgrade my ADSL service. And yes, it is disappointing to be among the large majority of Sonic users subsidizing people with access to better connections. None of the consolation prizes you mention in your announcement applies to me (better service in certain neighborhoods, good deals on TV packages that don't interest me), and I'm sure they don't apply to many others either.

I know for a fact that I'm directly responsible for at least three other people who signed up for your service. You guys have been great. I don't plan to switch immediately. However, you should be aware that my eyes will be open for a good deal from somebody else.