Chronic DSL performance problems - evenings only

[paul]

I have had Sonic.net DSL service over my AT&T telephone lines for about 3 years.
My "Express-R" service crawls at 100K -350K (BPS), EVERY evening (5:30 pm to 12:30 am).
Nominal speed is 1290K (download) during the morning and afternoon.
Upload is always 300K-325K. I reported this to Sonic tech support in April 2011.
Sonic and I thought this had been fixed by May 2011.

Sonic said that AT&T had changed my "virtual path" on their ATM network.
This "fix" was per Sonic's request to AT&T, after Sonic reported network path congestion.
I didn't use my DSL during the summer evenings, so I can't say for sure it was fixed then.
Well, the problem is back for sure since mid August (maybe never really fixed).

AT&T line technicians have investigated my connection 3 times since April.
They told me my phone line tests good enough for ADSL at 3000K+ (even at 7 pm).
My telco wires are 2 years old; homerun is new, no bridges/taps, modem has 30db SNR.
In October AT&T changed me to a spare port on their RT, no help, same problem.

Line quality tests still show 5%-17% packet loss, ONLY between 5:30 pm and 12:30 am.
The tests show this occurrs ONLY on the last hop inbound to me (AT&T's ATM net/RT).
Now, Sonic tells me AT&T won't commit to any time frame for resolution of this problem.

I am located in San Francisco (94116-western edge), not some outlying rural area.
It appears to me that improvement will only be by a newer technology, i.e. cable, etc.
Or, now that their T-Mobile deal is off, AT&T could concentrate on better service. HAH!

[tjj]

Hello Paul,

Are you within range for Fusion service? If so, that doesn't go over AT&T's network at all. It only uses the copper from your location to the central office. If you are within range, it would probably be faster as well as cheaper and you could ditch AT&T all together. Check your address at http://sonic.net/solutions/home/internet/fusion/

[dane]

As Tage suggestions - getting off the AT&T ATM network and on to Fusion may be helpful in getting us more visibility into what is going on. Will you check service availability, here: http://sonic.net/solutions/home/internet/fusion/

[Guest]

These responses (especially the first one) seem unfairly misleading. The way TJJ makes it seem, if OP switches to fusion, everything will be fine. However, the vast majority of the time, the issue Paul is having lies with the copper pair, and switching to fusion will not alleviate the problem.

It's difficult to pinpoint where and what the exact issue is, and even with the visibility fusion offers, usually the result is the same recommendation that Sonic has probably been telling ATT already in previous trouble ticktets, which is to "swap the pair".

Given the time of day the problems occur, my best guess is it's an issue with interference from some type of appliance near Paul that's turned on after people get home from work, and then off when they go to sleep. Even though you've had the IW replaced, this doesn't remedy electrical (or other types of) disturbances. In a multi-unit building, the appliance can be in another apartment or even in the basement or somewhere in the electrical wiring feeding the appliance. In some cases I've seen bleedover from neighboring buildings or even 3 blocks away (hey, this is San Francisco after all). This is extremely hard (or impossible) to realistically troubleshoot.

My suggestion is to ditch copper based internet access and try cable instead (or wait for sonic to deliver you fiber). Otherwise, the road ahead is guaranteed to be rocky and time consuming at best, and absolutely miserable at worst, and I never understand why, in cases like these, internet providers don't 'have a talk' with the end user and be frank with them, and tell them the likely scenarios that usually unfold with problems like this one. I understand wanting to go the extra mile to make sure customers are happily connected, but I feel there comes a time when maybe you should point them in another direction.

Please don't mistake my post as a slam on Sonic. They are a great company and I can't recommend using them more under normal circumstances!

Good Luck Paul!

[kgc]

My brother-in-law had a similar problem where his legacy AT&T DSL service would preform very poorly in the evenings. It turned out to be a dimmer switch on his hall light (that also happened to be audibly noisy in the first place.) Sometimes you can get lucky and it's something easy but it could just as easily be a neighbor or streetlight too.

[wifi]

I think AT&T has a tool where they can view the real-time modem sync speed, etc of all their DSL customers on a given street or within a neighborhood - sort of like looking at house valutions on Zillow :)

Hence you can more or less figure out the 'normal' speed for that street or neighborhood at that point in time (because the environment could change day/night, street lights, AM radio stations, etc). Worth asking if Sonic has a similar tool.

Coupled with a modem speed test at the NID and the result should indicate if the inside and/or outside wire could be improved. Or, if your speed is around the 'average' of your neighbors.

[kgc]

We can look at real time performance for our customers via an API that AT&T provides but not a customers of other ISPs.

[paul]

Many thanks for all the replies to my post.
My DSL/POTS is serviced by AT&T-R/T equipment, so fusion is not available to me.
I will probably remain with Sonic. I am not comfortable with Xfinity, or U-Verse, etc.
I understand the users of these products are subject to some throttling at peak hours also.
Sonic tech support and I seem to agree; problem is AT&T ATM net congestion, 5:30 pm to 12 pm.

All customers who get ADSL service from "my" RT will likely have the same problem as I do.
If non Uverse AT&T DSL customers don't have this problem, that would be very interesting.
I am disappointed by my circumstances. But I understand the real world implications.
NOTE: I submitted this post to inform, and provoke discussion, not to vent rage on Sonic.

The question of EMI (interference) seems doubtful to me. I have looked into it thoroughly.
AT&T line techs have noted that my local line is now underground, and the NID is new (2+ yrs.)
My homerun wiring is 35' #22 twisted pair, to RJ-11 jack, to 4' flat cable from NID to modem.
I have only 1 desktop telephone connected to the filtered telephone jack on the modem.
My modem performance stats are ALWAYS excellent (29 to 31 db-SNR, 24/7 for 9 months).
There are no AM broadcast stations within 7 miles of my location ( SF ocean beach).

The consitency of my problem's daily timing matches common Internet usage patterns.
It does not match local sunset time, or common lifestyle patterns, over the different seasons.
There are some regular daily changes, (Friday, Saturday, and most Sunday nights are worse).
These periods of packet loss, versus time of day, repeat, every week, with some precision.

Those interested can see my long test history, at DSLReports.com (hourly/monthly graphs, etc.).
I am a member of the Sonic Line Monitor Group (user ID-luckrats8).
http://www.dslreports.com/testhistory?view=81
The DSLReports.com website is an interesting and useful tool, for any interested in Telecomm, etc.
Thanks again for all the replies. There are some interesting ideas in the responses.

[dane]

It's generally easy for our techs to see a loop with physical problems - versus 'slow' which might indicate RT congestion. The subject of congestion on DSLAMs or RTs is a new issue which we've only recently began to see in some very isolated cases, and it's quite a challenge. There's no good fix except attrition.

-Dane

[bobrk]

For what it's worth, I see similar issues. I have a monitor set up at DSLReports as well, and I see ping times going up like crazy during the evening hours.

From NY:



From SF:



These seem to roughly correspond to TV watching times, and it's hard to tell if it's just with the local line or the internet in general.